Author Topic: MNBob's 1979 TATA 5 Speed (Read 14350 times)

roadking77 · « **Reply #120 on:** May 17, 2023, 01:17:08 PM »

Naples is def a nice place to be in the winter

MNBob · « **Reply #121 on:** May 18, 2023, 08:24:11 AM »

Electric Fan Operation

Two years ago, I installed a pulse width modulation (PWM) fan controller to operate my Lincoln Mark VIII fan. This device eliminates surges in the electrical system and operates at the speed necessary to cool the engine. At least that's the theory.

So a few days ago, it was a nice warm day, and I decided to take my classic car for the first drive of the year. There is a short freeway loop in in our area so I turned onto the freeway and immediately realized I made a big mistake. The freeway was completely stopped from the ramp going up, and I ended up sitting in traffic for a half an hour. During this time, the engine temperature slowly climbed by 20° and fortunately I was able to take the next exit before it overheated.

This forced me to look at the way that I had installed the controller and I discovered two things. The first was that I had hooked up the fan controller to the low speed cable of the fan (the Mark 8 fan is a two speed). Secondly, I had put in an emergency switch under the dash to operate the fan at full power (still low). I had completely forgot about this switch when I was stuck in traffic! It uses the failsafe terminals of the controller.

Time for a different set up! First, I hooked up the controller to the high speed fan wire where it should've been in the first place. Secondly, I designed a new backup system for failsafe control. This took the form of two high amp relays that are triggered from the Sniper fan controls to go on at certain temperatures. I did not use the failsafe function within the controller because it is something backing up itself.

Also, I put a two way switch under the dash that will turn on the (now) high fan through either one of these relays manually. However, the new Sniper backup system is automatic so this switch is mostly used for testing. There is also an alarm buzzer under the dash that turns on if the Sniper fan 2 temp setting is reached.

Hopefully, this is now covered!

FormTA · « **Reply #122 on:** May 18, 2023, 01:34:13 PM »

That's a pretty neat setup you have. I remember you installing it too.

scarebird · « **Reply #123 on:** May 18, 2023, 02:12:09 PM »

One of the reasons I went with a thermostatic clutch fan on my LT build - bog simple.

MNBob · « **Reply #124 on:** May 18, 2023, 03:31:20 PM »

Point taken. I have to have a PWM controller and a backup system with this large fan.

« **Reply #124 on:** May 18, 2023, 03:31:20 PM »

MNBob · « **Reply #125 on:** May 20, 2023, 08:32:28 AM »

Turn Signal

A year ago, I installed a new turn signal switch. I had a hard time with this because when I got it back together, the steering wheel was on crooked. I eventually ended up grinding off a tooth on the lock ring, because it would only go together one way. Now, for the past year, the turn signal is not working properly when turning to the right. About half the time, it wants to stick without moving into the right position.

After putting up with this for a year, I came to the conclusion that the reason it was sticking was because the lock ring was in the wrong position. So I took it apart and put the lock ring back to where it should've been. And, voila, the steering wheel was crooked just like last year.

After thinking about this for a while, I noticed that there was some wiggle room in rotating the horn ring collar and post within the the lock ring. Both years I had installed the post in the extreme right position within the lock ring. So I rotated the collar to where the post came through on the left side (see pics) of the ring opening, and put the steering wheel on and it was perfect!

I thought I had this all figured out, but I was in for a big surprise. When I put the horn button on, the bird emblem ended up upside down! The horn button would only go on one way, so I popped out the emblem and tried to turn it upside down. But the emblem had a post on it that went on only one way, so I ground off the post and glued it on the other way. But grinding off the post had a poor result; see picture below.

Horn Post in Right of Lock Ring Opening

Post Rotated

Upside Down Bird

Rotated Emblem

tajoe · « **Reply #126 on:** May 20, 2023, 02:35:47 PM »

Like Rosanna Rosanna Dana's grand-ma use-ta always say. "Ya know (?), it's always sum-tin". Nothing can be easy. Been there, done it. Congrats on getting it all lined up.

5th T/A · « **Reply #127 on:** May 20, 2023, 03:18:34 PM »

It’s funny how something that should be straight forward can turn into a project.

I remember having similar issues after I mounted my steering gear box. I seem to recall counting turns lock to lock and dividing by two for centering the steering gear. But when the Firebird was right side up the front wheels were off to the left slightly. I had to adjust the tie rod sleeves, basically perform Toe in adjustment.

MNBob · « **Reply #128 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:55:24 AM »

Yes, this was a comedy of errors. At least I can laugh at myself. I knew I should not have to adjust anything in the front end because I never changed it when i took the steering wheel off.

MNBob · « **Reply #129 on:** May 21, 2023, 09:02:28 AM »

Retrosound Radio

My radio has been working intermittently for the last few years. It works sometimes and then it doesn't; very frustrating. My first thought was that it was a loose wiring connection.

Yesterday, I checked all the connections and found nothing wrong, so I started playing around with it. If I just turned the key to ignition it worked. If I started the car, then it didn't work. After fiddling with it for a while, I determined that anytime the voltage was up around 13 or 14 volts, the unit was cutting out.

I went online and found this voltage regulator and ordered it:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y5JHZG2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

If this doesn't work, I am losing my patience with this unit. I am about ready to pull the trigger on a modern unit with Bluetooth and phone app control. This would require me to cut the dash, but I just don’t think the quality on these classic units is that good. I thought about putting it in the top of the console like 5th did, but I like it up higher where it's easier to get at.

b_hill_86 · « **Reply #130 on:** May 21, 2023, 03:44:23 PM »

I hooked my 77 red dot and console 8 track through a Bluetooth enabled amp for what it’s worth if that’s a route you’re interested in.

MNBob · « **Reply #131 on:** May 22, 2023, 05:45:30 AM »

I have read about the bluetooth amps; that is a good option in some cases. I already have two amps and they are working fine so i don't want replace them.

FormTA · « **Reply #132 on:** May 22, 2023, 07:29:35 AM »

I bought a in line blue tooth device that plugs into my amp in the trunk. But my radio doesn't run through it. I just use it to play music from my phone.

https://www.amazon.com/DS18-Bluetooth-Streaming-Receiver-Waterproof/dp/B07BV578YG/ref=asc_df_B07BV578YG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309820150211&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=921615298080441865&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015072&hvtargid=pla-571983470598&psc=1

sreta · « **Reply #133 on:** May 22, 2023, 10:24:27 AM »

Mnbob, do you have your 81 master setup documented somewhere? I would like to do the same thing.

MNBob · « **Reply #134 on:** May 22, 2023, 04:34:23 PM »

It was in the lost data on the site. I have been really happy with 81 master cylinder; it is aluminum and plastic so it is 7 lbs lighter than the 79 master. But you have to pair it with an 81 booster for it to fit. I have read the 79-81 dual diaphram boosters are the best and people use them on other car models. I got mine at Rock Auto.

« **Reply #134 on:** May 22, 2023, 04:34:23 PM »

MNBob · « **Reply #135 on:** May 22, 2023, 04:51:29 PM »

Here are before and after photos:

2012 Photo Original Rusty Master and Booster

1981 Master and Booster

sreta · « **Reply #136 on:** May 22, 2023, 07:28:16 PM »

That's nice. Thank you very much 👍

FormTA · « **Reply #137 on:** May 22, 2023, 09:14:50 PM »

The 81 master is nice I have the 4 wheel disc master on mine with 4th gen rear disc. Stops like a new car, I absolutely love it.

kentucky yeti · « **Reply #138 on:** May 24, 2023, 06:24:19 AM »

Beautiful view! We just got back from St. Augustine last week. We rent the same condo every year. Of course, the Atlantic view as nowhere near as nice as the gulf view. We go there simply because we like the history and architecture of St. Augustine. Congrats on the new home!

ryeguy2006a · « **Reply #139 on:** May 24, 2023, 06:53:58 AM »

I love the detailed posts! Have you considered going to something like a Sniper EFI that will control the fans in conjunction with the EFI?

MNBob · « **Reply #140 on:** May 25, 2023, 06:01:49 AM »

Ryan, the main fan controller system is the Auto Cool III PWM set up. The Sniper EFI is the backup system. If the PWM controller fails, the temperature will rise and the Sniper fan control will take over with temperature set points for fan #1 and fan #2 activating the fan control relays.

MNBob · « **Reply #141 on:** May 25, 2023, 06:23:20 AM »

Aluminum Radiator

The brass four core radiator is 12 years old. Last year, I had purchased a Cold Case brand aluminum radiator; so it was time to install it. The Cold Case was indeed a direct replacement and was dimensionally the same as the old one.

It was all pretty routine except for the brackets. I had designed my own brackets the last time and after looking at them, it was time for brackets 2.0. The old brackets had sharp points that could contact the case and they were a two piece design that was cumbersome to work with.

I found some aluminum U-channel at my local building supply. This was listed as channel for three-quarter inch plywood. It fit the rubber mounts for the radiator perfectly. All I had to do was form some end tabs for them.

The mount screws on the left bracket went through the core support and into the core support extension. I had to make two holes in the extension so that you wouldn't have to remove the radiator mount whenever the extension was removed.

Besides being better at cooling than a brass radiator, the new radiator was lighter than the old one by 6.6 pounds. My unofficial weights were aluminum - 17.8 pounds; brass - 24.4 pounds.

New Radiator

Old Bracket

New Bracket

Bracket Mounted (excuse the dirt)

Right Side

Left Core Support Extension Access Holes

5th T/A · « **Reply #142 on:** May 25, 2023, 07:14:11 AM »

MNBob, nice job on the mount fabrication.

I had to upgrade the radiator on my car because it was originally a 2 core that came with the 301 NA engine. I think the cold case is a quality part and since the manufacturer provides a lifetime warranty, they have confidence in their product as well. I am running the original clutch fan and shroud with my 461 without any issues. I run a 180 degree thermostat with the temp gage on my EFI indicating anywhere from 180 - 190 degrees. Including about a 10-minute sit in traffic on a 90 degree day with the AC running. Sitting in traffic for a longer period would be a much better test, but with your electric fan setup I wouldn't think you will have any problems.

MNBob · « **Reply #143 on:** May 25, 2023, 04:26:04 PM »

The Pontiac shrouds, fans and clutches are excellent. I have told the story before, but my car overheated in downtown traffic the first day I got it. Fortunately, I was watching the temp gauge and pulled over so no harm was done. After that, I switched to a four core radiator and never had any issues with cooling again.

I switched to an electric fan when I read the average mechanical fan uses 10 to 15 hp. The Mark VIII fan has been excellent, but it needs some electronics to run it because of the high amp usage.

The original temp gauge with the sensor in the head typically runs about 160°. The Holley temperature sensor in the intake crossover runs about 187°. I don't know why there is this big difference, but the truth is probably in the middle someplace. It will be interesting to see where it runs with the new radiator and fan control on the high fan wire.

MNBob · « **Reply #144 on:** May 26, 2023, 10:55:53 AM »

Test Drive

I couldn’t wait to take the car for a drive after rewiring the fan control system and installing the new aluminum radiator. Wow, somehing is definitely up here as the temperature on the Holley gauge hung around 172° and it used to run at 187°! It was morning and the temp was 70, so I will test again later. Cooler is better in my opinion.

I used to have the Sniper handheld installed in front of the cubby at the top of the council. After thinking that I might have to install a radio there, I moved it up to behind one of the center vents (see pics). I really like this location as it is much easier to view when driving. The center vent is not hooked up anyway.

Handheld in Front of Console

Handheld up with Gauges

« **Reply #144 on:** May 26, 2023, 10:55:53 AM »

MNBob · « **Reply #145 on:** May 30, 2023, 06:18:54 AM »

Radio Issue

As reported above, my radio has been going in and out when I drive. I surmised a voltage problem, so I ordered a voltage regulator. While I waited for the regulator to come in, I went in and searched on single din units.

The new radios have a tremendous amount of capability. They can do Bluetooth, phone, CDs, flash drives, Alexa, and Pandora as well as AM/FM. From my younger days, I have a large collection of CDs, so that ability would be really welcome. I used to be able plug my old phone into the RetroSound, but I no longer have that capability with the new phone, which has no mini-jack output.

Well, the regulator came in and I tested it (see pic). Wouldn't you know, it solved the problem perfectly! Hmmm….

MNBob · « **Reply #146 on:** June 07, 2023, 07:46:15 AM »

Radio Part Three

Previously, I had installed a voltage regulator to try and make my old radio work properly. This worked for a while and then it didn't. I ordered a new Kenwood CD player to replace it. The new unit has Bluetooth, phone, CD, flash drive, as well as AM/FM. I also ordered a new single din bezel plate from Restore A Muscle Car.

Installation was pretty easy, except for cutting a hole in the dash. I chose to use a mini hacksaw for more control and less likelihood of damage to the dash surrounding area. All connections on the harnesses were soldered on the bench.

I had to use some temporary RCA cables because mine were too short, But I got it hooked up and working. I ordered some new cables and will put everything back when they come in.

After testing this unit, I cannot be more happy with it. It is like stepping ahead about 20 years. Previously, I thought my system lacked bass and I needed a sub. Now I am not so sure.

Hooking up to Bluetooth on my phone was easy. You can use Pandora or any other app. The control system with the knob on the face plate is easy to use, but I downloaded the app and used it to set the screen color.

Here are the pics:

Wiring Harness Prepped

Dask View

5th T/A · « **Reply #147 on:** June 07, 2023, 10:02:20 AM »

Nice job on the installation. I too like to use solder connections and heat shrink for wire connections. That radio face plate really fits nice. Out of curiosity, does the new radio have a graphic equalizer or Bass, Mid and treble for tone adjustment?

MNBob · « **Reply #148 on:** June 07, 2023, 02:02:35 PM »

It has everything you can think of and more. From the button menu on the unit, there is a function called easy EQ. This has subwoofer level, bass, mid, and treble settings. You can also choose from predefined sound fields, like rock, pop, jazz, etc, and user defined. User defined, brings you to an equalizer with 13(?) bands. It is easiest to use the phone app when you adjust this equalizer because it gives a graphic display of your choices.

It has a ton of other settings impacting the sound including, loudness, bass level, car size, speaker position, speaker size, balance, fader. When I first turned on the unit, the bass was dominating, I now have the sound just right for me.

The pre-outs on this unit are really powerful. I had to go to all the amp level controls, turn them down, and rebalance the system.

roadking77 · « **Reply #149 on:** June 07, 2023, 03:42:37 PM »

Congrats on the radio, looks really nice! I like what you did with the radiator mounts as well. I will be installing my very soon now.

kentucky yeti · « **Reply #150 on:** June 07, 2023, 08:29:30 PM »

Very nice!!!

MNBob · « **Reply #151 on:** July 03, 2023, 03:33:03 PM »

Starter Disable
A few years ago, I installed a keyless entry system in the car that included a lot of whizbang functions. One of the functions that it came with was an anti-theft feature where you could disable the starter or ignition (or both) when the car doors were locked. I chose to disable the starter. The starter was re-enabled, upon car unlock.

I went to the local building supply about two weeks ago and came out to unlock the car with the clicker. There must've been some sort of interference because no matter how much I clicked, the car would not unlock. Being enterprising, I just took the key in manually unlocked the door. However, when I went to start the car, it would not turn over! I was ready to call a tow truck, but after fumbling with this for 15 or 20 minutes, the unlock finally worked.

Not wanting to ever repeat this experience, I now have installed a hidden safety switch under the dash in case this ever happens again (see pic). This was a ton of work because I had initially installed the relay behind the left kick panel! This was about one of my poorest decisions ever; because it is a real pain to remove that kick panel. So now the relay is moved it to behind the glove box.

Splitting Starter Line To Switch and Relay

Installed Foam Seal on Kick Panel

Hidden Bypass Switch Mounted

tajoe · « **Reply #152 on:** July 03, 2023, 08:26:04 PM »

Good idea.
A buddy years ago had a new Monte' SS (1988?), and the car was pretty clean. He didn't drive it much. Put a fuel line lock on it, (think it was located under the door/frame rail). Also had a steering wheel to pedal lock bar. Came out of a grocery store mid day, and his car was gone. Lots of commotion at the intersection. The thieves had exited the car and took off, cause it run outta fuel. He got lucky that day. Hopefully you won't have-ta experience that.

MNBob · « **Reply #153 on:** July 13, 2023, 12:25:20 PM »

Digital Speedometer
I first used a digital speedometer when I had my Infiniti FX 45. I got used to it and found it was really easy to read the speed; so I thought why not have the same thing in my Trans Am.

Amazon had one that had both a digital speedometer and a digital clock that was set by satellite, as well as other things. The original clock is not hooked up because it drains the battery. My right foot can get heavy at times so having this mounted on top of the dash keeps me out of trouble (see pic).

tajoe · « **Reply #154 on:** July 13, 2023, 03:10:37 PM »

At 1st glance, I thought you mounted a shaker scoop to your dash. Very similar.

roadking77 · « **Reply #155 on:** July 14, 2023, 05:28:45 AM »

Bob, thats interesting how does it get power. Do you charge it with a usb? I will have to look into one of those. I use my phone on an app but may have to look into that one.

MNBob · « **Reply #156 on:** July 14, 2023, 03:30:50 PM »

Joe, I didn't think about that, but you are right.

Kerry, the speedo uses the large rectangular USB B connector. I had to buy this and hook it to an ignition source:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086DF7646?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

5th T/A · « **Reply #157 on:** July 17, 2023, 09:48:35 AM »

I like the idea of having the display right in your line of sight while you are diving. The only downside is if you get pulled over. The first question is usually “do you know how fast you are going”. It could be harder to plead ignorance with a legible speedometer sitting on your dash.

tajoe · « **Reply #158 on:** July 17, 2023, 02:23:32 PM »

Quote from: 5th T/A on July 17, 2023, 09:48:35 AM

I like the idea of having the display right in your line of sight while you are diving. The only downside is if you get pulled over. The first question is usually “do you know how fast you are going”. It could be harder to plead ignorance with a legible speedometer sitting on your dash.

LOL. This reminds me of the 70s, when a neighbors young, and good looking wife would get pulled over in his 77 Z-28.
"Do you know how fast you were goin lady?". And she would bat her long eye lashes, and say, "yeah, I was doin 30", as she pointed to her tach. Of course the young male officer would pump up his chest, and give her the tech on the operations of a tach and what its purpose was, and feeling quite proud of his knowledge and instructions to this cute girl. She would get out of quite a few tickets pulling that one.

N PRGRES · « **Reply #159 on:** July 18, 2023, 09:00:55 AM »

Quote from: MNBob on July 13, 2023, 12:25:20 PM

Digital Speedometer
I first used a digital speedometer when I had my Infiniti FX 45. I got used to it and found it was really easy to read the speed; so I thought why not have the same thing in my Trans Am.

Amazon had one that had both a digital speedometer and a digital clock that was set by satellite, as well as other things. The original clock is not hooked up because it drains the battery. My right foot can get heavy at times so having this mounted on top of the dash keeps me out of trouble (see pic).

My speedo currently doesn't work and have been using my phone, which is a pain. This will be a good work around till I get the gauges restored and working

« **Reply #159 on:** July 18, 2023, 09:00:55 AM »

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Author Topic: MNBob's 1979 TATA 5 Speed (Read 14350 times)