TAC Central => Lobby => Topic started by: Jack on September 06, 2021, 04:05:27 AM
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Another Trans Am on YouTube from Coffee Walk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR8tke1gBXc
Worth a watch and interesting claim of it being a very rare car.
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I could only get through about 5 minutes. Too many 'stories'. I think the guy with the trans am and mustang is the same guy that was on gas monkey then got his own show. That was a major turn off for me. He is probably a good guy to hang around and talk cars with but that whole gas monkey thing is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
On the lighter side, that poor t/a has seen some better days.
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You are correct Kerry and I never liked gas monkey, but my nephew sent me the link saying its a very rare Trans Am. Apparently its a 72 with a 71 455 HO.
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MAN.... It is rough but it is a '72 :)
Thanks for sharing
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That '72 4-speed looks even worse than mine! ;)
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I think yours looks pretty sweet.
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I think yours looks pretty sweet.
X2
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Interesting video...thanks for sharing. I always liked the B team- Thomas and his crew better than Ass Monkey.
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Never heard the story about Rally IIs, 14" centers, on 15" rims. $1000 a wheel? Also the 191 heads, (that I still have, and payed $300 for in 81), he says are now going for 4-5K?! Really? I can never find these people when selling. My junk is usually worth nothing, when I need to sell.
I didn't get to watch the whole video...yet, so I'm wondering what's gunna happen with the car.
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Also the 191 heads, (that I still have, and payed $300 for in 81), he says are now going for 4-5K?! Really? I can never find these people when selling. My junk is usually worth nothing, when I need to sell.
I didn't get to watch the whole video...yet, so I'm wondering what's gunna happen with the car.
I've got a set of 197 heads and a 1971 455 HO intake manifold that I'd like to "trade" for a set of 7F6 heads and intake, so I've been looki g. So far I've seen one set advertised for $3500 US - those were SR heads cast in 1977 - and an original set for $5500. Entire engines se to be going for $8,000 to$10,000, more of they're running - if you can find them, and that's a cheaper proposition than locating all the parts. And to think I bought a complete, carb to pan, exhaust manifolds, everything 1971 455 HO from a '71 GTO Judge for $500 I. 1983. I sold it 3 years later for $1,800, so that was probably a good deal even back then. On the other hand, the 455 HO is essentially a 455 CID Ram Air IV that you can run on pump regular and build to put out 500 HP and 600 ft. lbs without breaking a sweat. :)
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I think yours looks pretty sweet.
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Thanks guys! It needs quite a bit of work, and it was missing some important parts that the one from Texas still has (maybe - I think the most likely explanation for the presence of a 1971 engine in that car is that it was replaced), but at least it won't take "extraordinary measures" to save it. It will be a pretty standard resto of a car that age one I track down everything need for the engine
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I've got a set of 197 heads and a 1971 455 HO intake manifold that I'd like to "trade" for a set of 7F6 heads and intake, so I've been looking.
On the other hand, the 455 HO is essentially a 455 CID Ram Air IV that you can run on pump regular and build to put out 500 HP and 600 ft. lbs without breaking a sweat. :)
Interesting you bring that up. I remember people calling 71 455 HO heads, "197"s, as compared to 191s. It's been a while since I looked, but I think the last digit resembles either or, the way it was cast. Guess it depends on what school we went to :)
As for the RAIV comparison to the 455 HO, the only thing similar is the exhaust ports, (round) and exhaust manifolds. I'm not sure about the aluminum intake, or tall intake ports. The HO doesn't have the good 041 cam, the long tulip valves or heavy valve springs, or the 1.65 rockers. But what the HO gives away on the top end, it does make up for it on the bottom and middle RPM range.
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I've got a set of 197 heads and a 1971 455 HO intake manifold that I'd like to "trade" for a set of 7F6 heads and intake, so I've been looking.
On the other hand, the 455 HO is essentially a 455 CID Ram Air IV that you can run on pump regular and build to put out 500 HP and 600 ft. lbs without breaking a sweat. :)
Interesting you bring that up. I remember people calling 71 455 HO heads, "197"s, as compared to 191s. It's been a while since I looked, but I think the last digit resembles either or, the way it was cast. Guess it depends on what school we went to :)
As for the RAIV comparison to the 455 HO, the only thing similar is the exhaust ports, (round) and exhaust manifolds. I'm not sure about the aluminum intake, or tall intake ports. The HO doesn't have the good 041 cam, the long tulip valves or heavy valve springs, or the 1.65 rockers. But what the HO gives away on the top end, it does make up for it on the bottom and middle RPM range.
It's more than the shape of the exhaust ports and exhaust manifolds - the heads are the same except for the size of the combustion chambers. The 455 HO has the same size and basic shape intake and exhaust ports (the roof of the '72 intake ports is slightly different than the '71) and uses essentially the same aluminum intake manifold and cast-iron cross-over as the RAIV (different part number, same shape); it also has 4-bolt mains, as did the RAIV. Rocky Rotella described the 455 HO in one of his articles as follows: ". . . GM mandated a maximum compression ratio of 8.5:1 for the 1971 model year. Pontiac responded by essentially increasing the displacement of its otherwise high-compression 1970 Ram Air IV to create the 1971 455 H.O. "
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mildly-modifying-pontiacs-455-h-o-add-nearly-100-hp-factory-gross-rating/
The RAIV was a higher-revving engine than the 455 HO. It made its peak HP 800 RPM higher than the 455 HO, and it's torque peak occurred 300 rpm higher, and was 35 ft lbs less. Perhaps that explains the higher-ratio rockers and tuliped valves, as they would mostly make a difference at a higher RPM.
455 HO
HP 335 @ 4800 rpm
TQ 480 ft·lb @3600 rpm
RAIV
HP 370 @ 5600 rpm
TQ 445 lb-ft @ 3900 rpm.
But anyway, at worst, the '71-72 455 HO was a detuned version of the RAIV - same basic engine, with a milder cam and associated changes (valves and rockers). That could be because, while the RAIV was always an optional engine in the 1969 and 1970 Trans Am, EVERY Trans Am in 1971 and 1972 got a 455 HO. Maybe Pontiac figured that not everybody would be willing to live with an engine with the RAIV's characteristics if they didn't have a choice. And of course, then, as now, if you WANT a 455 HO with tuliped valves, 1.65 ratio rockers and an 041 cam instead of an 068, that could be arranged. 8-)
I've seen $4500 as an asking price for 455 HO heads, but I've also seen $2500 recently. They aren't cheap, they aren't as expensive as RAIV heads.
I've seen some references to the '71 heads as 191 heads, or even 197 / 191 heads, although I think that it's supposed to be 197. The appearance of the cast numbers vary, and on some the "1" and the "7" resemble each other more than others, but most that I've seen, including mine, look like 197. If anything, some of them look like "797".
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Thanks for the very informative post.
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Nothing is more obvious, than the casting on your head. (197) I still think it's funny.
In the beginning of Pontiac performance history, the most popular hi-perf name regarding Pontiac, was Ace Wilsons Royal Pontiac dealership. They were a smiggen B4 my time, but the name carries on today. Not sure how much literature they provided to the enthusiast. And they were winding down in the 70s, but they are legendary in our history.
Next came Nunzi Romano from Brooklyn, and HO from Calif. They had parts and literature available, and that's what I was weaned on. Others were to follow, and still continue today. In both HOs "heavy duty parts and specs", and "high performance eng. design and blueprint" books, they list the 71 455HO heads as "191"s. When I purchased the heads years ago, I saw "191s" as the cast number. Now that you've brought this up, I went on a "now-a-day" research, and found conflicting results, with some as 191s, others listed as "197(191), and still others as 197s. So I decided to un-bury mine, and if you look hard enuff, it looks like a 7 to me also.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/bb453/tajoe/455HO_head_001.JPG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/tajoe/p/08eade17-fc66-4100-ad23-1591fa2fd53d)
Amazing what a few decades can do to confuse us more. :)
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tajoe,
For sure, they've been called both, and I can see the confusion - it looks like they used a couple different fonts, and 1 and 7 in the "197" look more like each other than they do like the "1" cast just below them. And Wallace Racing lists them as both - "191/197".
Also, it looks like we have had some similar influences - these are my reading materials from the very early 1980's.