TAC Tech => Mechanical => Topic started by: roadking77 on April 10, 2021, 07:19:58 AM
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Im most likely going to get a cold case radiator at Carlisle in a couple of weeks. They have an electric fan set up for the second gen as well. Have been going back and forth if I want to go that route. Im looking for a good reason NOT to (I know the cold case guys will tell me why I should).
I am a stock from factory type of guy with cars, however after seeing some reviews and hearing from a couple of guys on here the Cold Case can be installed and not change the overall looks that much.
I had cooling issues originally with my 77 but that was something to do with a 'flex plate' or something in the water pump. Once that was resolved I havent had any problems at all. I had my original radiator cleaned and checked from an old school radiator guy. This tells me as stock it will work. I do have the original radiator for the 79, but I would have to have it cleaned and checked as well for peace of mind at a cost of $150+- , thus my reasoning of putting that money towards a new one.
As far as the electric fan set up, my biggest concern is the change of looks in the engine bay, but if the benefit out weighs that than im all for it.
SO, what is the biggest advantage of using electric? And is it a relatively easy hook up, by that I mean do I need to rewire the dash? buy an additional $500 worth of controls? etc. etc.
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Kerry,
I installed a Cold Case radiator, for the time being I have elected to stay with the factory shroud and clutch fan. There are pros and cons of both types of fans.
Stock fan setup is simple and looks original.
Electric fans are definitely better for hot climates if you do a lot of low speed bumper to bumper driving. They move a maximum amount of air regardless of engine RPM. If you have a dual fan setup you can stage them, one fan on at a lower engine temp, both fans on as the temperature rises or AC is turned on. Electric fans draw a lot of current, the stock alternator may not be up to the task. Most electric fan suppliers offer kits with a temp sensor, relays and wiring, I think a kit is the way to go.
FYI, I read some unfavorable reviews of the cold case electric fan setup, saying the shroud restricts airflow at higher driving speeds. Sometimes you don’t know who to believe with online reviews. I am sure other TAC members will have good advice.
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Thanks, thats the kinda of feedback Im looking for. Like I said, I dont have problems with my 77, if it aint broke dont fix it!. But If an easy upgrade would be that big of an improvement......
It gets hot in MD, but not months on end in the 100 deg range. Pros and Cons most of the seat time is in the summer months, however being black on black with non working a/c I dont take it out much on 90 deg days. I have missed more than a few shows (including prob the only POCI convention that will be within driving distance in my lifetime) due to extreme heat.
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After having both mechanical and electric fans, I like an electric. The average mechanical fan uses 15HP to run, some use as much as 30HP. An electric fan only runs when it needs to, not all the time. So when the engine is warming up it is not on. I put a light on my dash so I could see when it runs and it is not that often. It is also not needed on the highway.
I opted for the biggest electric fan there is, a Lincoln Mark VIII at 5000 cfm. I set it up using a relay and a temperature sensing switch to turn on at 180 off at 160 degrees. The first relay melted at the terminal (still worked) so I had to install a more HD one with bolt on connectors. While this worked, it was still causing surges in the electrical system when turning on and off.
The best way to run an electric fan is with a controller. The best controllers use PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to operate the fan. The technology turns the fan off and on at a low speed (so there is no surging) and adjusts the fan rpm in relation to the engine temp. The fan almost never runs full speed keeping it quieter. Some smaller electrics may not need a controller, I don't know, but mine did.
Here is the controller I purchased and plan to install this summer (Auto Cool III in black see bottom of the page):
https://www.autocoolguy.com/product-page/auto-cool-50-pwm-controller (https://www.autocoolguy.com/product-page/auto-cool-50-pwm-controller)
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I think the electric fans are worthwhile. Pretty much can second the “pro” opinions. If you have a 100 amp alternator that should work fine. One thing I do like is that it opens up the engine area, with no mechanical fan and shroud. The wiring process isn’t complicated in my opinion, pretty much straightforward. The cooling is much better at low speeds and at idle.
Jim
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There are a ton of aftermarket fans available now. Most come with an integrated shroud which is what you want. Some come in combination with a radiator that they are designed to mount to. Some can be mounted in front of the radiator. Some come with built-in electronics and sensors.
Summit lists hundreds of them. They list dimensions, mounting depth and amp draw for most. Here are a couple of examples:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16927 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16927)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-180 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-180)
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Thanks again, Thanks Bob, I knew you did an electric settup on your car, was hoping you would chime in.
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Wiring is pretty straight forward. Buy a wiring kit for what you want to do.
Not having the original motor in there, and with the 350 Chevy in there, I can't do much about looks now.
I kept the original fan and shroud. The previous owner actually had the fan wrong way round and instead of fixing this, he removed the thermostat. :-?
When I re-built the motor I put the thermostat in. On first start I realised the fan is "pushing" instead on "pulling". Sorted that out. I also decided to add an additional 16" electric fan on the front of the radiator that will push air to the other side. The two fans would then work together.
I bought this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Fan-Relay-W-Thermostat-Install-Kit-Hardware-Kit-180-200/262495842468?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D642021cb9f1d48d78de3e5e49bb23a5d%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D373433585259%26itm%3D262495842468%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWeb%26brand%3DCustom&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851
The electric fan will only come on then needed. Especially in traffic.
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I have dual electrics in a factory shroud from a forth gen Camaro. They work just fine and have OEM reliability.
That said, the factory clutch fan has a lot going for it as well. The clutch is "free wheeling" when cold and the fluid inside it becomes thick when heat from the radiator is sensed causing the clutch to lock up, the fan blade to tighten up and pull more air. The mechanical system is very reliable and OEM engineered to work for your application. There are no motors, wiring, relays and electrical sensors to potentially fail and if the factory clutch should start to fail, generally you are going to get some warning although it will be harder to diagnose. Another upside is the cost if you already have it, just put a new clutch in and be done with it. Downside mentioned above is 15+ HP loss.
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Anyone use both, electric fan in front of radiator? Or just an all or nothing setup?
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Argument in Formula8's comments.
2 weeks ago I went for a drive on a really hot day. Go home, was idling in the driveway and could hear a sound. Came out of the car and notice coolant boiling out. Temp was a 255 F. I shut off the motor. Found out my relay for fan speed #2 went out. I switched the wiring to force Fan speed 1 back on and started the car. Scary to think that could have been the motor right there.
So +1 for mechanical BUT, I would still do electric.
I got too comfortable with the car's reliability and haven't paid as much attention to the gauges in recent months.
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thermal clutch fan with the proper spacer and shroud is HARD TO BEAT. That said....my bird needed alot of help running 11:1 iron headed motor in a 77 TA (not much frontal area) ...i went with the Mark VIII ford fan..... btw the ford relay is a 75 amp !!!! running amp of the fan is 28 on low and 35 on high then the obvious 50% overage for start ;) moves enough air to suck small children off the sidewalk..
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Another point to consider is the grill and how much air flow you get driving down the highway. I can't comment on the later cars but the cluch fan is not an issue and a better setup in my opinion (at least for 70-73 cars with large grills). Not much that can break or require maintenance.
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If you go electric, I think it is important that you build in some redundancy or fail safe into the system. In my case, I have two completely different trigger systems each with their own temp sensor/switch. This year I installed an Auto Cool III PWM controller for the low speed fan. Not only is the high speed relay controlled by a different temp sensor (200 degrees), but it also activates a siren in the car which wakes me up if I'm sleeping.
The new PWM controller is nice as it runs the fan faster the higher the temp gets. Still it never runs on low as fast as with the old relay system so it is quieter and keeps the temp about 170.