TAC Spotlight => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: FormTA on August 21, 2023, 09:54:28 AM
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I had started this thread years ago before the last site crash. Now that my son wants the car for his first car, I will working on it again. I had lost motivation to work on it because I built my 79 LS swapped Trans am. So, I'll try to go back and find and post pictures of all the work I did back then and bring it up to date.
In short, I replaced the T top roof, both quarters and trunk drop offs, many parts of the floor, one door and skinned the other and hand made the rear tail pan. The car is a high optioned car with th 301 4 barrel auto. It still runs well but the valve guides leak and it smokes on start up. I acquired a nice engine with less that 10k miles on it from a fellow forum member and I sourced a ST10 4 speed and parts to swap it to a manual.
Stay tuned for pictures and updates.
Here is a picture from the 80s of it the owner before gave me.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52810098523_a8e0407db0_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52809660241_75bee18438_z.jpg)
The day I bought it back in 2009.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48831850762_a990f7b772_z.jpg)
Here is how it sits today.
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I think I started pulling it apart in 2012. It was dangerously rusted.
I pulled one seat belt right out of the floor.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52809851154_893578c1ac_z.jpg)
I should have just replaced the whole floor but I did it in sections.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52809851159_4f5b0c2547_z.jpg)
Both quarters and the roof were not able to be saved.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52809649156_fe7927a098_z.jpg)
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I'll have to dig for more pictures but the torque box/spring perch were gone and i made my own as either they weren't avaliable or I couldn't find them back then. I also put a nice passage door on and skinned another door i had for the drivers side.
I'll be collecting parts for it but i have to get the 49 ford truck somewhat together so I can free up some space in my shop. Currently the truck is taking up 3 bays.
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Cant wait to see the progress with this. There have been times within the past 3 years that I have wanted to start my next project while the TATA was stalled, but even with a 40' shop I am very limited for space. 3/4 of it is settup for my business needs. Although I know I will be doing a lot of welding and patch work the next go round which could have been more than finished by now. I had contemplated adding on to the end of the shop but I am afraid if I did so, I would have to add a bedroom as well!!
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Lol you guys and your big shops running out of room makes me laugh. I work in a 20x21 garage and would kill for more space. I plan to extend my garage someday but that will have to wait. Didn’t Tom with the 81 do his in a single car garage? That’s nuts!
Anyway, I know you have a hord of your own parts Luke but I just picked up a stash of mostly 79 parts if you think you need anything. Once I can go through things better I’m going to start listing them little by little.
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I am especially excited to see this one in motion and completed!
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Brian, I always welcome parts. Let me know what you have and condition before you list.
Larry, I will hopefully move relatively quickly on this one as I really only have 18 months before he can drive and I want to have it on the road by then. As this is for a teenager, I will hopefully be leass picky as that is what slows me down.
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So, a friend of mine picked up a 77 400 4 speed car a couple years ago and is pretty deep into the restoration of it. He was recently in a motorcycle accident and his left leg has pins and screws in it now so he can no longer use a clutch. He had the ST10 rebuilt and purchased a bunch of new parts including a Hurst comp plus shifter, clutch, billet flywheel and push rod, pivot balls and firewall seals. He asked if I knew anyone looking for one and I decided to get it for this Formula project. Only downside is he thought it would be a great idea to paint it black for some reason... but I got it for $1700. The clutch and flywheel were $700, the shifter was around $300 and the rebuild cost him $800 plus all of the other new parts a, original drive shaft nd the bellhousing. I feel it was a good deal.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53134362985_35e79f8d20_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53134362935_3c319944ff_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53133958051_c8d5ff0e52_z.jpg)
Now, singe this is going behind a 301, i can't use the clutch or flywheel. I will have to sell those off to fund the custom made flywheel needed for the 301. The 301 is an externally balanced engine which uses the harmonic balancer and flywheel to ballance the engine.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53134362940_768470ae9a_z.jpg)
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Luke, how much of the linkage do you have? I think I need most of that stuff. Unfortunately I just got my clutch stuff.
As for shops, yes a big shop is nice, but its like closet space, the bigger the shop the more stuff (junk in my case).
In my case the 30 x 40 is supposed to be my dedicated woodworking shop as that is my day job (and pays for my TA stuff). I do have one area set aside for car stuff but not the whole thing. My previous wood shop was 16x32 and that was cramped at times. I restored my black car in one bay of my 3 car garage. There was a bit more room to work, but still all of the work and mess was confined to one space. My wifes car doesnt dare spend one night outside, LOL.
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I have every piece I need but I don't think there are extras.
Yes, large shops and barns equal more stuff/junk. My shop is 24x50 and 2 stories. It is split in half, the front half is where my finished TA lives and the painted chassis for the 49 F1 sits for now. The back half has a 8x24 room with my welders, benders, smal lathe and mill are along with all of my paint guns and supplies. The back part is where I actually work and the other chassis and body for the F1 are. I need to get that truck together so I can free up space for the Formula.
The one picture of the Formula tucked in the corner is in my pole barn which houses mostly toys, lots of snowmobiles, a boat, jetskis, trailers, tractor and the 67 Camaro. Even with all the storage I have my 24' car trailer outside as well as the 69 roadrunner/charger project. You can also see I have hung the kids old go carts from the ceiling/wall to make more space....
One day I'll get to them all (maybe). I have my retirement planned. Ha, ha.
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Sounds like it’s be a fun retirement at least lol.
Kerry, I have a few 4 speed parts left over but not many. I should still have a zbar with one rod attached but I can’t recall which one.
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Very good. I am not sure exactly what I need at this point but I am thinking the whole enchilada!
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What a great project! I remember seeing that picture of your car with the roof cut off. :cool:
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The shop just finished the custom flywheel for the 301 4 speed swap. If anyone is interested it was $600 shipped. Ya, a lot for a 301 project.... He did sy the clutch from the 400 would bolt up but I really want a stock style clutch and throne that came with the trans is a RAM powergrip which I have heard may chatter, they are built for higher horse power engines? Anyone using a powergrip?
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What was the need for the custom flywheel Luke?
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301 engines are externally balanced unlike everything else which is internally balanced. Places day they have a flywheel but it isn't correct. I had to have ttaperformance.com take a normal flyweel and machine it so it fits and is balanced (or un balanced) for the 301. Back in the day you could go to any auto parts store and order one, that is what I did back in 1994 for my TA. The 301 (as far as I know) only came with the 301 and a 4 speed in 1979 (maybe 80 &81). So supply is ridiculously scarce. Unfortunately the flyweel I had from my TA I gave to Decaf back when sold him my 4 speed. Unless to him but valuable now to 301 guys.
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I don’t know anything about 301s but non301 Pontiac engines are externally balanced I believe from my research.
https://butlerperformance.com/n-13498-internal-neutral-vs-external-stock-balance.html
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Very interesting about the 301 engine. Will be a fun car when you get her going!
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Kinda of right. It is semi internal ballanced. They just couldn't do it all inside the engine on the crank.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585271
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529418
The 301 only has two counter weights on the crank so it uses the harmonic balancer and flywheel to offset the weight of the rods. They really had to add weight so it's really offset unlike the 400 which is only slightly off.
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Ok Luke, that was my understanding on the 400s as well. I wondered if the 301 had more of an imbalance. That makes more sense as to why the 301 flywheel is so different.
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So, my wife and daughter are going on a 3 week treck across the country camping and hiking the national parks. That leaves me and my gear head son home alone, a scary thought. He wants to get the Formula running and on the road. I wanted to ger the old 49 ford f1 running or swap the engine in the 06 charger or even get the 67 Camaro running. Most of these projects "could " be accomplished if we put in the time. I really wanted to do the 67 but he's like "if we build that, you won't even let me drive it". Which it probably accurate as insurance wise classic car insurance won't insure anyone who doesn't have 10 years of driving experience. I checked with all of them, they only will if you do liability only, not replacement value or agreed value policy. No way I'm only doing liability on a car of that value.
Anyway, I placed an order for a clutch and boots and anything else I can think of to drop the new to us 301 and ST1 into the Formula. If that goes well, We'll drive up to NPD auto parts and get a windshield and rear window and slam enough together to put it back on the road.
So hopefully I'll have some sort of a build montage for you all. We'll see how ambitious he really is. They leave in 3 weeks so I'm going to go through all my parts and see what else we'll need.
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So, my wife and daughter are going on a 3 week treck across the country camping and hiking the national parks. That leaves me and my gear head son home alone, a scary thought. He wants to get the Formula running and on the road. I wanted to ger the old 49 ford f1 running or swap the engine in the 06 charger or even get the 67 Camaro running. Most of these projects "could " be accomplished if we put in the time. I really wanted to do the 67 but he's like "if we build that, you won't even let me drive it". Which it probably accurate as insurance wise classic car insurance won't insure anyone who doesn't have 10 years of driving experience. I checked with all of them, they only will if you do liability only, not replacement value or agreed value policy. No way I'm only doing liability on a car of that value.
Anyway, I placed an order for a clutch and boots and anything else I can think of to drop the new to us 301 and ST1 into the Formula. If that goes well, We'll drive up to NPD auto parts and get a windshield and rear window and slam enough together to put it back on the road.
So hopefully I'll have some sort of a build montage for you all. We'll see how ambitious he really is. They leave in 3 weeks so I'm going to go through all my parts and see what else we'll need.
And you'll build memories with your son, that's the most important
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Luke, I saw the picture with the roof cut off, that takes some guts. Where do you stand with the bodywork? Compared to what you have going on with the F1, the Formula should be considerably easier. Back in 1980 when I restored my 75 TA , I thought it would be done in about a month. Ended up being more like 18 months.
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Luke, I saw the picture with the roof cut off, that takes some guts...
...and here I was anxious about swapping a 79-81 tail panel for a 70-73. :-o
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That was a s while back... like 8-10 years ago. As for bodywork, none. All the panels are in epoxy except the hood and front bumper cover as i have a really nice one in my parts supply. All welds were metal finished amd ready to accept a skim coat of filler if needed. The roof seem will need either metal impregnated filler or fiberglass infused filler, just not lead. There is a bit of a fitment issue with the door skin on the driver side door. The body line doesn't line uo correctly with the quarter panel and it's been too long for me to remember why. Either the quarter is off a bit, the door skin itself or both. I may throw the original door back on to see what's uo and maybe fix that door if that's the reason.
But, the wrench that was just thrown at this is we just put an offer on a house across the street from us. I told the guy years ago if he ever wants to sell, let me know. Well, after living there for 30 years, he's ready to move to California.... We agreed on a price and very soon we will have a second home. Only reason for the purchase is that it is an opportunity we don't want to let slip away. Both of our kids are over 17, we like the area/country and we own farm land just down the street as well as our current home. We plan to keep them all (may need to rename the street) :-P It has great curb appeal but needs some work like filling in the back yard where the current owner was going to make it a walk out basement....
Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see how things go but I have all the parts to get started, just need the time!
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Congrats on starting your own commune lol
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Well, to add to this soga my daughter went to Poland to see some friends, she slipped and fell down a flight of stone steps and broke both feet, well right food shattered her heal and other bones, left foot can't really tell, so swollen exray wasn't able to tell. She can't walk and spent 12 hrs in a hospital there. So the trip across the ID in 2 weeks is definitely a maybe.... they just cast her feet, going to do surgery when she gets home on the 3rd....
Back to the car, I ordered a new console from Classic industries through Summit Racing. Free shipping and $20 off if I bought it through them instof direct, weird but ok. $407 after tax... I have some sem Dye for this car custom mixed to match the red. Too bad I sold my original 4 speed console I had in my parts bin. These parts are really getting expensive. But $400 isn't bad I guess, but we'll see what yhe quality is like. I had an original through....
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See if the manual console has the hump cutout like stock or just wraps around it, like an auto console with different shifter hole.
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I just received the OER center console from classic industries. For $400 I believe they really could have done better. This console is just (in my opinion) flimsy plastic. No vinyl, kinda thin and extremely cheap feeling. Pretty disappointed with it. It will fill the void and look the part but nothing like the original. I am going to stick some of that metal backed sound deadening inside it to make it feal more dense. I don't think this will last long before cracking.... we'll see.... I guess it's better than nothing and there are no other options out there. Now I really wish I didn't sell an original one I had in my stash.... I saw these were available and thought they would be more like the original and that's why I let the other one go. Plus I'm a horder and thought I'd try letting some parts go. We'll that backfired.... I'm keeping everything now! 😃
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I just received the OER center console from classic industries. For $400 I believe they really could have done better. This console is just (in my opinion) flimsy plastic. No vinyl, kinda thin and extremely cheap feeling. Pretty disappointed with it. It will fill the void and look the part but nothing like the original. I am going to stick some of that metal backed sound deadening inside it to make it feal more dense. I don't think this will last long before cracking.... we'll see.... I guess it's better than nothing and there are no other options out there. Now I really wish I didn't sell an original one I had in my stash.... I saw these were available and thought they would be more like the original and that's why I let the other one go. Plus I'm a horder and thought I'd try letting some parts go. We'll that backfired.... I'm keeping everything now! 😃
Luke,
$400 is a lot of money for a substandard part. With your fabrication skills you could make something out of sheet metal and cover it with soft vinyl.
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I bet I could. I just don't have the time. I will pay for quality products vuy I was disappointed in this one. Ya it will look good, probably better than a used original but it's just plastic and seems chea but coats a lot.
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It never fails, as soon as you get rid of something you have been storing, a year or two later, you need it! It has happened to me more than once. We are still downsizing.
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As per other reply somewhere, they certainly used to be vinyl covered over sponge insulation. Perhaps theres a few suppliers now. OER have a habit of packaging several suppliers of different specs and quality into same packaging depending on stock. Got any pics? I have old ones of mine, as I'm sure half the forum does, of theirs.
Does it have the manual hump cutout or just auto with moved shifter opening?
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I'll post some pictures once I'm back in town. I searched every supplier I could and they all look identical to what I received. Just molded plastic with the vinyl grain. I'll look to see if it has the hump as well.
So, if anyone out there has a nice original 4 speed console, I'd be interested.
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I bet this weighs less than 1 pound.... but, like I said, it will fill the void and look the part...
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The A body unit is pretty lightweight too. :(
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Luke, that is one reason why I attempted to repair my original console. It came out pretty good. I have a buddy that is restoring a '79 TA. He was on the hunt for quite a while to find a 4 speed console. There arent that many good ones left out there unfortunately.
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Oh wow. Textured plastic. Wonder if that's mentioned in ads.
Dug out my receipts from October 2000. Simply says 10009290R. But that doesnt mean much, just the GM number with an R for repro. At some point they decided to go cheap and probably didn't drop the price to match.
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Ya, totally sucks. Kerry, I sold my 9.5 out of 10 original to Decaf back in the day. He got a great deal!
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And as can be seen, no manual hump cut out. Mind you, originality aside, never really understood why it was there. Or rather, wasn't.
Be aware there's a vinyl cap now offered for the consoles, like the dashes. I know, should already be there. Look it up if dramas.
Oh...by ACCU and nearly 300 bucks....probably arrive folded with wrinkles.
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I saw those and actually for a second thought that's what I received.
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And as can be seen, no manual hump cut out. Mind you, originality aside, never really understood why it was there. Or rather, wasn't.
Be aware there's a vinyl cap now offered for the consoles, like the dashes. I know, should already be there. Look it up if dramas.
Oh...by ACCU and nearly 300 bucks....probably arrive folded with wrinkles.
What's the manual hump cut out you are mentioning?
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Not sure but the left side might need bulge to clear the floor hump on that side.???
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The original GM manual consoles had a clearanced cutaway next to driver as the shifter hump is off centre. The design itself was very odd when a console could easily be designed to fit around it. Regardless, it's a difference. Rivets, metal brackets and cover padding are others.
The reviews all say trimming may be required for either console to fit. A sign they need work from new.
Here's a new Camaro manual console by OER..just because that's what came up first. A few things, like many OER, they use pics of original GM to mislead sales. None of the OER consoles have these Rivets, the manual cutaway or the soft vinyl cover, now.
https://cdn.classicindustries.com/assets/images/ProductImg/4/469930.JPG
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The original GM manual consoles had a clearanced cutaway next to driver as the shifter hump is off centre. The design itself was very odd when a console could easily be designed to fit around it. Regardless, it's a difference. Rivets, metal brackets and cover padding are others.
The reviews all say trimming may be required for either console to fit. A sign they need work from new.
Here's a new Camaro manual console by OER..just because that's what came up first. A few things, like many OER, they use pics of original GM to mislead sales. None of the OER consoles have these Rivets, the manual cutaway or the soft vinyl cover, now.
https://cdn.classicindustries.com/assets/images/ProductImg/4/469930.JPG
Sounds like the floorboard team and the console teams weren't talking during the design stage