TAC Central => Lobby => Topic started by: Gene-73 on July 30, 2023, 01:03:59 PM
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Now that both Ford and GM are starting to offer crate electric motors for EV swaps, as well as numerous boutique shops, is this something that you would consider for a Firebird or Trans Am? I'm seeing more and more classics being electrified at shows and on-line that it's becoming a real option when considering a resto-mod build. In the past the general consensus was to start with a small and lightweight car, but I've seen all sizes of cars and trucks being EV swapped, some with serious HP and torque numbers. Is there anyone here who would even consider this (assuming the cost wasn't prohibitive) or is this a bridge too far?
On a related note, who here has an EV that wants to share their experience with it? We bought our first fully electric vehicle almost a year ago and I have to say it's the most fun vehicle I've ever driven. The instantaneous torque makes even city driving a blast. Between the performance, zero fuel costs (with rooftop solar), and extremely low maintenance it makes me smile all the way down the road.
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Now that both Ford and GM are starting to offer crate electric motors for EV swaps, as well as numerous boutique shops, is this something that you would consider for a Firebird or Trans Am? I'm seeing more and more classics being electrified at shows and on-line that it's becoming a real option when considering a resto-mod build. In the past the general consensus was to start with a small and lightweight car, but I've seen all sizes of cars and trucks being EV swapped, some with serious HP and torque numbers. Is there anyone here who would even consider this (assuming the cost wasn't prohibitive) or is this a bridge too far?
While I can't argue all the benefits of a pure electric vehicle, I would never convert my TA into one. Mine is a time machine taking me back to when life was carefree. I would miss the sound, the feel and the smell of its internal combustion engine. Having said that, my wife and I have Hybrids as our daily drivers and love them. No doubt the future at some point will be mostly electric. If we could flip a switch today and convert all the internal combustion cars to electric in one day we wouldn't have nearly enough kilowatt hours of generating capacity to run them. So it's going to take some time to build adequate infrastructure to support them. Again, I am all for electric vehicles because they are cleaner, will require less maintenance and will probably have a lower cost per mile.
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Not what you asked but I would like to diesel swap a TA someday. Doubt I ever will but I think it could be cool.
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If we could flip a switch today and convert all the internal combustion cars to electric in one day we wouldn't have nearly enough kilowatt hours of generating capacity to run them. So it's going to take some time to build adequate infrastructure to support them.
On that note, let me introduce you to the Aptera https://aptera.us/ (https://aptera.us/), the world's first practical solar electric vehicle for under $30k. Depending on where you live the solar charging feature can get you over 11,000 miles/year of grid-free driving. This is a hyper-efficient vehicle that has an incredibly low drag coefficient of 0.13, lightweight forged carbon fiber body, with 3 wheels and hub motors to minimize drive train and rolling resistance losses. The whole vehicle has been designed around efficiency and should result in an extraordinary 10 miles/kWh energy consumption where the average EV is 3.25 miles/kW. That means you can go 3 times as far with the same amount of energy so even if you plug it in, it charges faster for less cost than a typical EV.
While not in production yet, they do have prototypes and will likely have production validation vehicles on the road later this year. They currently have 45k pre-orders, including myself (I'm on the list for one of their first Launch Edition vehicles). Super excited for this to come to market!
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I researched this a bit on the 71 Lemans and realised there was nowhere to put a battery pack big enough for decent range (150 miles). GM may have the motors, but not the batteries.
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I researched this a bit on the 71 Lemans and realised there was nowhere to put a battery pack big enough for decent range (150 miles). GM may have the motors, but not the batteries.
Also lacking grid capacity. I work at a natural gas power plant and we already run full bore 90% of the time. If we get a huge demand, like a hot day, it really stresses the grid. Solar and wind aren’t going to get us where we need to be and a power plant takes 2-3 years to build.
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EV, no, never. I will support any fuel that will match a 15 min. fuel stop before getting back on the road. Several hours to recharge after somewhere between 150 to 300 miles before moving again is stupidly inefficient use of time. I know that combustion seems dated and lots of energy used in the process is wasted as excess heat, but none of the numbers for EV are any better when the whole process of obtaining raw materials, building the vehicles and batteries, generating and distributing the electricity are taken into account. Right now the highest reliable energy density for a given volume is from liquid fuels.
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In 30 years when I can get a donor cheap, I would consider it. The amount of torque and speed is so scary. The new corvette videos I've seen are pretty amazing. But it is really tough to beat the sound if a V8. I drove mine around last night and never turned the radio on. I love reving my V8 to the moon in first and second. (LS swapped).
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EV, no, never. I will support any fuel that will match a 15 min. fuel stop before getting back on the road. Several hours to recharge after somewhere between 150 to 300 miles before moving again is stupidly inefficient use of time. I know that combustion seems dated and lots of energy used in the process is wasted as excess heat, but none of the numbers for EV are any better when the whole process of obtaining raw materials, building the vehicles and batteries, generating and distributing the electricity are taken into account. Right now the highest reliable energy density for a given volume is from liquid fuels.
While I am not an EV fan, the "several hours to recharge" is also grossly over stated
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What makes me laugh about EVs as the claim is's "cleaner". Actually its just as pollution intensive as the ICE, the waste is just different. The waste from creating the batteries is pretty intensive, although some wastes we arent even sure of the long term effects.
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Doubt I would do a trans am, at least in the immediate future. I saw an el camino at a cars n coffee a few weeks ago but did not have a chance to talk to the owner. It was basically a cobbled up mess though. I have nothing against EV's its the 'everyone must have them' idea that gets me. I have a good friend with a Tesla 3 and he said from a recent extended trip that charging time was the biggest downfall. With normal household current it took all night to fully charge (at his buddy's, he has a rapid charger at his home). Simple economics I cannot afford nor would I want to spend $60k+ on a new car. Will have to see what the used market is before I will ever own one. At least in the Tesla world I do not like that the car is hooked up to the mother world via computer. I have nothing to hide and know that I am not that Im not that important but detest the idea of someone knowing every mile I drive and where I am going, when I need this etc.
Gene, solar car looks neat, but I hope you did not put a lot of money down to be on the list! There is a local company building a high end electric conveyance vehicle (I wont mention the name or the product). I have been to their 'factory' a couple of times giving them prices for some construction work they needed done. They have no money in the budget for improvements to their rented building as it all goes into R&D. The product looks interesting but I dont believe anything has been released for sale in the 3 or 4 years I have known about them. Their prototype has changed a little over the few times I have been there. In person it looks ok, but somewhat home built. The website shows it in action and it looks beautiful! Also on the web it says the production is limited and it only takes something like $100k to get on the list to buy one. Final price to be determined.
IF I were paying money to be in on the ground floor of a new vehicle I would take the time to go and look at their production facility.
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Electric motor in my Trans Am? Never.
If I want an EV Trans Am......I'll buy a slot car. :grin:
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Interesting comments on the EV swap topic. For me, I'm not a big fan of my 50 year old ICE. I sometimes think that maybe I should do an LS swap but then think why stop there. Probably wouldn't do the EV swap because of the high cost but the idea is attractive. It's possible now to electrify a vehicle without making any permanent modifications to the body and frame so going back to an ICE would still be possible. Maybe if I run out of other projects.
There is an interesting connection with the Aptera to our Firebirds. The lead designer of the Aptera is Jason Hill, who is the son of Ron Hill, a Pontiac designer involved with creating the first generation Firebird. Ron later became head of Pontiac 2 Design Center overseeing the Firebird program for 1972 and 1973. Ron also holds the GM patent for the hood mounted tachometer.
The Aptera is going to happen. Lots of information out there if anyone wants to research them. They are definitely a disruptive technology shift.
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At some point in time gasless engines will become obsolete and no longer allowed. I think ev swapping will become just as big as ls swapping is. If the engine in the T/A ever blows I’ll throw a turbo diesel in it for fun. Maybe someday when I’m in my elderly years I will have to throw a battery in it, might not have the same charm as an engine but at least I can still drive it (probably loads faster too). Side note, if you ever do get an EV install an at home charger that works overnight, the electric bill will still be cheaper than gas, for convenience.
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I'd try an EV swap, but it would be more for the fun of it, not for the performance. I think that we have a really long way to go before we can match the long term performance of a V8. By long term, I mean that yes the Tesla's are a beast on the track. No one is arguing that, but I'll take on any EV best out of 5 runs with almost any car. By the end of a full on WOT run on a drag strip, EV's have nearly depleted their battery. Wait another 1-2 hours for the battery to be fully charged again.
I'm sure there will be a breakthrough at some point with battery technology, but until then I just don't think they are practical for performance cars right now.
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I just did some Googling and it is expected that 30-50 percent of all cars sold by 2030 will be zero emission. Seven states have banned new gas car sales beyond 2035.
There was a show on Motor Trend called Vintage Voltage that was very interesting. They did a lot of different car brands, a lot British, but others as well. The first consideration was where to put the batteries and the second how to mount the motors.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PB4Nby2Ai-g&pp=ygUUaGVsbCBubyB0byB0aGUgbm8gbm8%3D
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I commented about our Vehicle to Load feature on our EV6 in the other thread. An interesting story is last year when we were shopping for an electric vehicle, we briefly considered the F-150 Lightning because of its V2H capability but they were nearly impossible to buy one off the lot in California. Around that same time we were vacationing in Minnesota and saw a Lightning Pro (base model) at a dealer in Minneapolis, so I fired up an app called "A Better Route Planner" which is specifically for planning charging stops when driving an EV. You put in the type of vehicle, your destination, and it maps out the stops needed for charging and for how long. I wanted to see how feasible it was to drive from Minnesota back home to California in the Lightning. Needless to say, the DC fast charging locations are few and far between across some parts of the country. Technically it would have made it but there were a few legs where it would be necessary to lower the driving speed below the speed limit to save battery charge and limp to the next station.
So bottom line is if you plan to road trip in an EV across the country, range and/or efficiency matters and the base Lightning is not stellar on both of those metrics. Tesla on the other hand has an advantage, they have a very dense charging network across much of the US so range is less of an issue. They are also in the process of opening up their network to non-Tesla cars so that will help non-Telsa owners in the future.
Also for those shopping for an EV, download the free "A Better Route Planner" and play with it to get a feel for what the public charging experience would be for your candidate car. You may be pleasantly surprised, or not, depending on where you live.
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Space in a Trans Am has always seemed difficult for everything, so you probably would struggle to get respectable batteries in it. All the empty space in one is behind the rear axle, so that's not good for the dynamics of it. Other than that, I guess its about like any other car.
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How many here actually drive more than 50 miles a day?
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Space in a Trans Am has always seemed difficult for everything, so you probably would struggle to get respectable batteries in it. All the empty space in one is behind the rear axle, so that's not good for the dynamics of it. Other than that, I guess its about like any other car.
From what I've seen, once the engine and transmission is out the electric motor takes up so little space that there ends up being a lot of extra room in the engine bay. I think in most builds they put half the battery pack up front and half in the trunk or fuel tank area. Splitting up also helps with weight distribution.
I just did a quick diagram in Sketchup. This is the size of around a 40 kWh pack of LFP batteries which would likely get about 120 mile range depending on the setup. That's about the minimum range I would target.
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Absolutely not. Adulterating these classics is sacrilege. Imagine installing jet engines on a B17 or B25 aircraft. Anything besides exhaust and original engine performance work in the form of heads milled, rockers, intake and similar is a no in my book.
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At some point in time gasless engines will become obsolete and no longer allowed. I think ev swapping will become just as big as ls swapping is. If the engine in the T/A ever blows I’ll throw a turbo diesel in it for fun. Maybe someday when I’m in my elderly years I will have to throw a battery in it, might not have the same charm as an engine but at least I can still drive it (probably loads faster too). Side note, if you ever do get an EV install an at home charger that works overnight, the electric bill will still be cheaper than gas, for convenience.
That will NEVER apply to classic cars.
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Given that I just did an LS swap 3 years ago it’s not going to happen. Mine’s the CARB legal LS3 EROD crate engine which at the time was probably the most environmentally friendly option available. So much for that one.
What I do think makes some sense for those of us happy with our current engines is efuel. These renewable fuels apparently can work without engine mods. If these can be easily added to our existing gas stations I think we save a lot of environmental damage by not just trashing our ICE cars.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/e-fuels-could-keep-the-gas-car-relevant-as-an-electric-future-looms
I think most of us drive our classics less than 2000 miles per year so an EV retrofit will never make sense. Now if your engine kicked the bucket like my 400 did - it could make some sense depending on the conversion costs. I don’t think they’re cheaper than an LS swap still.
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Regarding purchasing a new EV vehicle, the equation is much different. Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 has been a good car so far. As mentioned in the other thread just 2 issues - starter battery and a window regulator, covered under warranty. Zero maintenance otherwise. Exterior and interior design again isn’t my favorite. Looking forward to the Dodge Charger EV with the fake exhaust and shifting.
I like the potential of the EV powering your house. Next EV we get I’ll be looking for that feature.
I still think one needs to own a house to make the EV experience bearable.
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Regarding purchasing a new EV vehicle, the equation is much different. Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 has been a good car so far. As mentioned in the other thread just 2 issues - starter battery and a window regulator, covered under warranty. Zero maintenance otherwise. Exterior and interior design again isn’t my favorite. Looking forward to the Dodge Charger EV with the fake exhaust and shifting.
I like the potential of the EV powering your house. Next EV we get I’ll be looking for that feature.
I still think one needs to own a house to make the EV experience bearable.
Zero until it is time to replace the battery at an astounding average of $24,000 plus labor. I wonder how many 2020 Tesla cars will be on the road by 2028
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Regarding purchasing a new EV vehicle, the equation is much different. Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 has been a good car so far. As mentioned in the other thread just 2 issues - starter battery and a window regulator, covered under warranty. Zero maintenance otherwise. Exterior and interior design again isn’t my favorite. Looking forward to the Dodge Charger EV with the fake exhaust and shifting.
I like the potential of the EV powering your house. Next EV we get I’ll be looking for that feature.
I still think one needs to own a house to make the EV experience bearable.
Zero until it is time to replace the battery at an astounding average of $24,000 plus labor. I wonder how many 2020 Tesla cars will be on the road by 2028
Semi-fair point but this is the current estimate of battery replacement costs (including labor). In terms of lifespan, they're estimating 10-20 years. Looks like the cost is about 2x the price of an ICE replacement.
Anywhere around $13,000-$20,000 for Models S
At least $14,000 for a Model X premium SUV
At least $13,000 for a Model 3 entry-level sedan
I am planning to sell our Tesla before the warranty is up, just in case :D
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But what will the price be in 10-20 years?
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Makes sense Gene - that's the hope these battery prices go down. Still worried about the long term sustainability of lithium as well, hopefully we don't just get into another oil situation.
Hopefully we can also figure out how to not make such heavy EVs as we are right now and thereby not need so much battery capacity. It is absolutely crazy how heavy these things are. The Rivian truck is 7100 lbs vs my Jeep Gladiator - which is pretty much the exact same dimensions - is 4600 lbs. I think the Hummer EV is nearly 10K lbs. Whatever happened to the focus on power to weight ratio?
I still really like the idea of the eFuels - I hope we can eventually have a few environmentally friendly options available and not just bet the farm on one.
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Hopefully we can also figure out how to not make such heavy EVs as we are right now and thereby not need so much battery capacity. It is absolutely crazy how heavy these things are. The Rivian truck is 7100 lbs vs my Jeep Gladiator - which is pretty much the exact same dimensions - is 4600 lbs. I think the Hummer EV is nearly 10K lbs. Whatever happened to the focus on power to weight ratio?
Agreed. Your comment illustrates exactly why the Aptera is headed in the right direction. Because they've designed the entire vehicle for efficiency, it needs a smaller battery for comparable or better range. For instance, the Aptera Launch Edition version is planned to have a 40 kWh battery pack, which is about half the size of my EV6 battery but the Aptera will go 30% farther (400 miles vs 300 miles). They eventually want to offer a 100 kWh battery that will have a 1000 mile range. Compare this to the Hummer EV with its 212 kWh pack that goes only 350 miles. Smaller battery = lower cost.
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I wonder if any of the politicians who make plans for an electric future have actual math and physics on there radar.
Sometimes the goal is a little too far. We were supposed to have cold fusion by now and what ever happened to everyone driving ICE powered cars getting 100+mpg.
I hope there is a new high density, low cost, green battery just around the corner, but I wonder if the right materials to make it even exist ... on this planet.
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I wonder if any of the politicians who make plans for an electric future have actual math and physics on there radar.
Sometimes the goal is a little too far. We were supposed to have cold fusion by now and what ever happened to everyone driving ICE powered cars getting 100+mpg.
I hope there is a new high density, low cost, green battery just around the corner, but I wonder if the right materials to make it even exist ... on this planet.
I don't mind aggressive goals as long as our solutions to meeting those goals makes sense. I think Tesla's success forced our hand on this unfortunately and we're not looking at the entire picture properly. It's not just the cars themselves, it's also the entire infrastructure behind them that needs to be considered.
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...It's not just the cars themselves, it's also the entire infrastructure behind them that needs to be considered.
Our grandfathers did this before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act
It always causes me to smack my head on the desk when hearing "we can't do this" and then hear about "American Exceptionalism".
This is not hard, just not cheap.
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IMO if it keeps these cars on the road, screw it. We fell in love with these cars for their appearance and memories. You can make a Yugo go fast and sound good.
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I wonder if any of the politicians who make plans for an electric future have actual math and physics on there radar.
Sometimes the goal is a little too far. We were supposed to have cold fusion by now and what ever happened to everyone driving ICE powered cars getting 100+mpg.
I hope there is a new high density, low cost, green battery just around the corner, but I wonder if the right materials to make it even exist ... on this planet.
I don't mind aggressive goals as long as our solutions to meeting those goals makes sense. I think Tesla's success forced our hand on this unfortunately and we're not looking at the entire picture properly. It's not just the cars themselves, it's also the entire infrastructure behind them that needs to be considered.
Exactly, but the conversation is kept at the car level.
For me, they just aren't practical as some have noted above. range, time to charge, cost of repairs or replacement parts. And the initial price is so staggering the administration is adding additional smog rules on ICE cars so the price of those go up to match EV's. Here's a good look at the two vehicles from Haggerty...
https://www.nada.org/nada/nada-headlines/beyond-sticker-price-cost-ownership-evs-v-ice-vehicles
I'm not a fan of the technology and unless I'm forced to buy one, won't, let alone transforming my car to EV status. My only beef on this subject is the "forcing" of Americans to move in that direction. If you like the technology, go for it! I'll praise your tenacity in doing it and be happy for you.
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You can't transform a 2nd generation Firebird to battery because the frame is not going to support the unreasonable weight of the batteries without major reinforcement. It is not happening without huge Dolars. It is plain stupid.
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My thoughts…
Positive…..The new GM EV crate motor swap kit is an awesome start for the next generation of hot rodding. The motor utilizes the 1950’s-present bellhousing bolt pattern. It already works with the now “old school” 4L60/4L80 transmissions. Manual transmission option should be available in the future. If it already bolts to that and GM can continue to work around the classic gas engine architecture/packaging, the future looks great for us classic car people.
Negative….cost is a big hurdle and, currently, only selected installers are allowed to sell/install. My biggest gripe with the EV swap from GM is the battery is over 900lb. This will lead to suspension modifications necessary, heavy duty brakes, packaging, etc. The battery is the biggest issue.
General opinion…everyone hammers down on the power infrastructure when debating this subject. My previous employer has a hybrid electric Porsche and a few other employees had hybrid plug-in electric cars. I have seen my previous coworkers charge at work and home with no issues at all. They rarely have to stop for gas.
Would I do it to my Trans Am? Maybe, maybe not. I like my gas engines but think it would be cool to plug in at home, charge at work, not have to warm up my engine, not do oil changes and have less maintenance. Rowing a stick shift behind an EV engine would be interesting. If I were to do EV, I would want everything done up on the car. LED headlights, fancy interior, pro-touring, etc.
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I did a longer road trip yesterday in the EV and thought I would share a real world example of the public charging experience.
It was kind of a spur-of-the-moment decision to visit my son who lives about 160 miles away in San Jose (320 miles round trip). I live in the Sacramento area and this is usually about a 2 1/2 hour drive with all freeway driving. Yesterday with the traffic and a couple slow downs for accidents, the GPS said 3 hours. Kia EV6 EPA range is 310 miles but given the hot summer temps and running the A/C, along with freeway driving the range is lower, so let's say 250 miles. Battery level was 80% when I left but even with a full battery I would need to charge at least once on the trip.
With the Kia's NMC battery chemistry, I typically keep it topped up at 80% charge and only go to 100% charge if planning a longer trip. LFP batteries can be topped up to 100% all the time. It's a separate discussion on the pros and cons of different battery chemistries. Since this was a last minute decision to road trip, I didn't have a chance to fully charge to 100% and left the house at 80% charge but still could have made it there without stopping to charge.
About half-way there I decided to stop for lunch and to also add some electrons. A popular DC fast charging station there has 8 stations and all were full when I arrived. Had to wait about 5 minutes for an open spot, and once parked charging from about 50% to 80% took 9 minutes. Had a nice chat with a fellow EV driver while waiting. My experience is that public charging stations are kind of like mini Cars and Coffee events, lots of cool cars and everyone anxious to talk about their vehicles. Then grabbed a quick burger across the street and continued on my way.
Got to San Jose for the visit and at the end of the day left for home. Was at about 40% charge and there was a DC fast charging station just one block from my son's townhouse so went there for another charge session. This one had 3 stations that were empty but one was out of order. I plugged into one of them and charging initiated but the charger was throttling at 44 kW, far below the full potential of the 150 kW charger and would have taken 37 minutes. So I unplugged and moved to the other spot and that one charged at full speed to 80% and took 12 minutes. The drive home was non-stop and I arrived with around a 15% charge level.
In summary, total time charging on this trip was 21 minutes over the 2 sessions with an additional 5 minute wait time. A little longer than a traditional gas station stop but definitely not the hours long experience that some people think it is. Biggest issues I've experienced numerous times are public chargers that don't operate at full speed or are out of order completely. That happens far too often but hopefully will get better over time. Hope this helps folks get a better feel for the EV experience and dispels some of the myths out there.
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Gene, Thanks for that story, I have no idea how these operate in the real world. So, what did it cost to charge at these "stations", if you don't mind me asking? I have very minimal knowledge on these EVs.
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So, what did it cost to charge at these "stations", if you don't mind me asking?
Good question. In my case the public charging sessions were free because the Kia came with 1000 kWhs of free charging on the Electrify America network and I'm still using that up. Not sure about all, but I've heard of other auto manufacturers that give some level of free public charging with the purchase. I believe Hyundai gives 2 years, unlimited amount of free charging with EA.
If I had needed to pay, the cost would have been $0.48/kWh with the EA network. They just raised their prices and I think the previous rate was $0.41/kWh. There are several different public charging networks to choose from but I'm not familiar with the cost of the others. Keep in mind this is California where everything costs more. My home electricity cost with PG&E ranges from $0.38/kWh (off-peak) to $0.51/kWh (peak), but we have rooftop solar and are net-zero so charging at home is free.
Here's the important thing, the fuel cost advantage of an EV may not be that great over an ICE vehicle depending on your situation. In our case, the EV only made financial sense when bundled with the rooftop solar. Prices are always changing, gasoline can fluctuate wildly and electricity is always going up, but here is a current example.
- Our previous vehicle, a Ford Fusion Hybrid, got 44 miles/gallon. At $4.50/gallon for gasoline, the cost was 10 cents/mile.
- Our current vehicle, the Kia EV6, gets 4 miles/kWh. At $0.38/kWh for electricity (at home, off-peak), the cost is 9.5 cents/mile so not that much better. The public charging rate of $0.48/kWh is actually higher than the cost/mile for gasoline in this example.
We installed rooftop solar primarily for the home energy cost savings because PG&E is so high around here and we have a big house. The EV only helps with reducing the payback period for the rooftop solar, it's not the primary reason for getting it. When planning the rooftop solar, it made sense to throw in a few extra panels to be able to charge an EV.
Having lived with an EV and solar charging for about a year now, this is the reason why I'm so excited about a vehicle like the Aptera. Not only does it's efficiency give it the lowest cost per mile in terms of energy usage by a huge factor, the built-in solar can reduce the fuel costs to near zero.
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Very interesting. Thanks for that explanation. The only energy thing I did when I built my house was to install a geothermal unit because at the time (2010) we got a huge rebate so it ended up costing the same as if I installed a propane unit. And geothermal cost way less to run than the propane, so win/win.
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A friend of mine sent me this link comparing fueling cost of Gas versus an all-Electric vehicle. The answer is somewhat complicated, depending where you live and where you charge your car there is quite a variance in cost. Another variable that is bound to change is how to tax users of all Electric vehicles for road usage.
https://apple.news/A7gZPHq1-Sm-9qqkhcm4j5g
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With the Jeep versus the ID4, the economics for me are very favorable to the ID4. The Jeep was getting about 14 miles to the gallon. In the Jeeps’ defense, the suburb where I live in is light after light when you try to go any place, so no SUV is going to do great in that situation. At any rate, it was taking 16 gallons to fill which gave me about 224 miles. Because the Jeep took premium fuel, the price was about four dollars a gallon resulting in a fill up cost of $64.
I calculated the cost for the ID4 to go this same distance at $9. The price of electricity here with all the adders is 14 cents per kWh, a lot less than what Gene said the rates are in California. These figures are estimates, but with an average of three fill ups a month, this is quite a monthly savings.
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I would love 3 fill ups a month. Last fall I was putting $100 in the gas tank every other day! Working closer to home as of late so it has not been so bad. My v6 f150 gets about 17 mpg around town, a bit better when we had a 4 hr commute. Went across the scale at the refuse plant yesterday and empty the truck tips the scale just at 7,000 lbs.
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I don't feel that bad now. I get 13-14 MPG and fill every 3 days or so at $80 or more a fill up. 2021 RAM with 6.4L gas.
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You guys are using the trucks for work, I am retired and on a fixed income.
I did find a good summary article on EV's expected in the near future that might be of interest:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g29994375/future-electric-cars-trucks/)
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I wouldn’t swap an LS into my TA, never mind do an EV conversion 😁. The reason I love my car is the personality it has, with all the noises, smells,…. EV would suck the soul right out of it.
On a recent trip to ÇA, I drove a Model 3 and a Porsche Macan GTS back to back. While the 3 ran circles around the Macan, it was an appliance. It did everything well, just like my refrigerator. Although slower, the Macan just owned the 3 when it came to the enthusiast factor.
If you are looking for a transportation/commuting module, an EV would fit the bill. But then again, we’re on this forum for a reason 😁
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I'm in the "never" group but even if I wanted to, I don't believe it's allowed since my 79 still goes through smog check every two years in Southern California. Anyone know for sure?
And no I'm not moving out of California or registering it in another state or blah blah blah :P :P
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I'm in the "never" group but even if I wanted to, I don't believe it's allowed since my 79 still goes through smog check every two years in Southern California. Anyone know for sure?
And no I'm not moving out of California or registering it in another state or blah blah blah :P :P
Yes CA requires smog every 2 years. My LS3 (as mentioned earlier it’s the CARB legal E-Rod crate LS3 ) never has any issues passing. My old broken down 400 had some challenges passing before it kicked the bucket.
While I appreciate those who want to keep it original there’s absolutely no comparison between an always dependable 430HP that never overheats vs the old 180hp Pontiac 400 L78. It is way more enjoyable. I’m also much more confident taking my kids out in it as I’m not stressed it’ll break down or overheat.
Not sure how the LS swap compares to the EV ones now but if the LS is still significantly cheaper it’ll be hard to justify an EV swap for most of us. Not many of us are getting over 1000-2000 miles per year on our cars.
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You know I agree with you but that said, I do enjoy the originality of the old carb and transmissions too. My son has decided wants my 79 Formula that's in the barn and we are now going to swap in a manual transmission so it will be all period correct and something I can drive when I want to satisfy that itch.
As for the LS debate, I don't think others realize how much the cars stay the same, at least mine did. It feels to me like it did when I was a kid but like you said, it starts instantly and I don't have to do maintenance on it, like plugs, wires rotor blaa, blaa, blaa. It just w
Runs and runs amazing, whenever I want to drive it. I think, someday there will be ev swaps done with our cars but I feel it will be limited as the gas engine is part of the feeling that goes with these cars. I would have to have my gas version and then the ev so I could make a choice when I go for a drive.
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Agreed that I think these cars still need that exhaust sound. The LS sounds just as good to me as the 400 did. Also agree with you that the TA just feels like a new car after the motor and the character isn’t horribly changed. As folks have seen before I tried to keep some of the original character by adding a Pontiac blue cover to the engine.
Obviously if I had one of the Super Duty motors or any of the early 70s motors it’d be a different story. I’m guessing my 77 400 had about 150hp left in it before it died. :-D
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One of the other funny things is when I changed the shaker decal to “E-Rod 6.2” I get a lot of
folks asking if it’s an EV :-D
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One of the other funny things is when I changed the shaker decal to “E-Rod 6.2” I get a lot of
folks asking if it’s an EV :-D
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Please ignore all of my comments regarding EVs above. I now see what Gene was talking about. We traded our 2019 Tesla Model 3 standard model in for a Kia EV6 GT. The Kia is 100x nicer than the Tesla in every single aspect. The driving experience is way more engaging. It pumps in some sound (only audible in the car) when accelerating - it just sounds more like a normal car from the inside. The Tesla made me feel like I could fall asleep driving it.
The power is absolutely insane with 4 driver modes. Eco - 287hp, Normal is 430HP. Sport is 430HP and tightens up the suspension. GT mode is 576HP/546 lb feet and has a drift mode (0-60 in 3.4). It handles great although it’s a relatively low SUV.
I’ve owned about 20 cars in my life and this one is the most fun to drive by a large margin.
The interior is also much more like a normal car but still has all of the new tech features. The cameras are much better than the Tesla. The 360 view allows you to perfectly position the car in a parking spot or next to a curb. No more curb rash concerns - my wife had destroyed our Tesla’s wheels. The fit and finish is much better.
I’m happy that Kia didn’t just try to copy Tesla’s approach. I’ve never owned one of these Korean brands before but I’m really impressed.
So in summary Tesla really gave me a bad first EV impression. I still wouldn’t bother doing an EV swap on a classic due to the costs involved but don’t be afraid about buying a new one (but not from Tesla).
I ended up leasing the Kia for 2 years - I’ve not leased before but the lease deals are really great right now. Plus my Tesla’s value was plummeting over the past year. Pretty sure the lease investment will nearly equate to the $s I would’ve lost on the Tesla over the next 2 years.
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Excellent choice Darryl. You also picked the same color as our EV6!
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Excellent choice Darryl. You also picked the same color as our EV6!
Thanks Gene!