Generation Specific => Second Generation 1970-1981 => Topic started by: fadetogray on June 25, 2022, 07:17:17 PM
-
Is this a normal amount of play in the wheel on a 79 Trans Am?
I've replaced the suspension with a Hotchkis Stage 2 kit, a new Borgenson Steering Box and an Intermediate Shaft with Rag Joint.
I'm surprised that level of play is still there. Is this normal or is something else going on? YouTube video link of the play below.
https://youtu.be/p9SG4764jT0
Thanks all.
-
Heck no.
You need to look under the hood and see whether it's the box or the 3 joints in the column.
-
x2!
I had a visit with my aunt and uncle many years ago in California. My uncle took us out on a few 'day trips' in his Lincoln Mark. It was quite a few years old but he bought it new and was quite proud of the car. I still remember the fear I had travelling the coast highway with him, steering wheel slapping from side to side just to stay straight!!
-
Heck no.
You need to look under the hood and see whether it's the box or the 3 joints in the column.
I've replaced the rag joint, do the other 2 joints have names so I can look them up?
Still learning here for sure on the mechanical side of things.
Thank you!
-
Does it do it when engine off? ie rules out the play from steering box up, you can get someone to wiggle it side to side and see how much play at telescoping shaft and by time it gets to steering box, or even the steering arm itself. There's an adjuster screw on top of the steering box but it's a final resort after seeking the issue elsewhere, and not really a fix.
-
You mentioned that your surprised at the level of play still there. Can we assume you had a lot of play before all these components were replaced? Is it worse, better or no different? The amount of steering slop shown in your video is totally unacceptable.
Almost all suspension components can cause excessive play if worn enough. You may have multiple worn components. It’s a two person job to isolate the problem. One person wiggles the free play in the wheel while the other looks for the cause, the engine doesn’t have to be running. It could be a worn rag joint, steering gear box, pitman arm, idler arm or tie rod end. It should be easy to see the and isolate the worn part.
Non steering steering suspension parts like lower ball joints or control arm bushings could contribute to the problem.
-
I can imagine upgraded suspension, steering, tyres and rims can also highlight a problem previously put down, half correctly, as vague and wandering factory setup, albeit with a few issues. At least now you can start to focus on the cause.
-
I guess I need to figure that out too. Mine is the same and everything is new including the steering box...
-
You mentioned that your surprised at the level of play still there. Can we assume you had a lot of play before all these components were replaced? Is it worse, better or no different? The amount of steering slop shown in your video is totally unacceptable.
Almost all suspension components can cause excessive play if worn enough. You may have multiple worn components. It’s a two person job to isolate the problem. One person wiggles the free play in the wheel while the other looks for the cause, the engine doesn’t have to be running. It could be a worn rag joint, steering gear box, pitman arm, idler arm or tie rod end. It should be easy to see the and isolate the worn part.
Non steering steering suspension parts like lower ball joints or control arm bushings could contribute to the problem.
When I bought the car, the steering was a mess, lots of play, not responsive and sloppy. So I replaced literally everything I could think of which is listed below. This is my first car of this age, so I wasn't sure what to expect. But it was a million times better after that, extremely sharp and responsive once you got past the "play" in the wheel. It's just that 4 or 5 inches of dead zone in the middle.
- Borgenson Steering Box
- Intermediate Shaft with Rag Joint
- Hotchkis Lowering Springs
- Hotchkis Shocks
- Hotchkis Sway Bars
- Hotchkis Upper and Lower Control Arms
- Proforge Centerlink
- Proforge Tie Rod Ends
- Proforge Idler Arm
- Year One 17x9 Wheels with 255/40/17 Front and 275/40/17 Rear
- Powerstop Disc and Drum Kit
-
Here is another video showing steering wheel play except he says that engine is off. One of the main causes of this can be maladjusted stub shaft retaining ring. Looking at other videos posted by that channel, the entire front suspension has new parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2kP43iHKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2kP43iHKE)
-
That is truly messed up. I wouldn't be driving it.
-
with car on the ground
have a helper rock the steering wheel as if turning left and right, same as in your video
look for any movement in the steering ball joints, they should just pivot
inner and outer tie rod ends
drag link aka centre link
idler arm
the ball joints are the gold parts with grease fittings in this parts page
https://www.moogparts.com/find-my-part/find-my-part-results.html?type[value]=2&type[label]=Light%20Duty&year[value]=1979&year[label]=1979&make[value]=52&make[label]=Pontiac&model[value]=595&model[label]=Firebird
yours may be adifferent color and non greasable
but the ball joint is what you need to check
-
Wow! That is vintage 1950 sloppy! Fadetogray, you've spent a bundle on all those aftermarket parts...yet nothing was fixed. If you had all original parts in place, my first look would be at the rag joint. That, I have found is usually the culprit due to age assuming no damage to the Pitman arm. Did you get a new Pitman arm with the steering box? Curious.
-
I may end up replacing my steering shaft with a jeep unit to avoid using the rag joint.
-
I kept thinking about the amount of play you have and believe there is something amiss with your new Borgenson steering box. From my experience, two to three inches of steering wheel play occurs when the rag joint has lost its integrity and replacing it with a new rag joint cures that play. Fiddling with the gear box itself is not a good idea--typically no adjustments are needed. Did Borgenson provide any adjustment information during the installation? Another question: When you brake hard on a flat street/ road does the front pull to one side where correction is needed to stop straight? Let us know.