TAC Tech => Mechanical => Topic started by: nigel on June 14, 2021, 11:47:20 PM
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Hi Guys, had this issue the last couple of times I've been out in TA. Starts fine in the morning when the engine is cold spins over easy but if I stop to fill her up or stop for any other reason she won't crank or cranks super slow it's like the engine has gone tight. No charging problems and the starter motor is in perfect condition any ideas ?
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either heat soak and starter is getting too hot
or needs starter motor
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Start with the simple stuff like the wires and battery connections, make sure they are good and not rusted.
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Jack had suggested before about upgrading the hot wire off of the battery to a super heavy gauge (Jack, please correct me if Im wrong), this is probably a good idea, and one which I still need to do.
Having said that, these cars are notorious for hot start issues. The biggest problem I had when I first got my car on the road was that exactly. Would do the same as you are experiencing. I was using a stock starter, no idea if it had been rebuilt or not. First thing I did was wrap with a heat blanket as per some suggestions. Car did work after that but I have no idea if that helped or not. Then one night at a show my starter crapped out completely resulting in a tow home. I had a mini starter that I bought from Summit installed. That seemed to cure the problem. I have not had any problems since. Although I am still overly paranoid about this happening every time I drive the car. I cant remember the brand but I do know I spent about $200 on.
SO, I would upgrade the battery cable and put in a mini starter.
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I agree. I think the starters get less efficient as they age. I had the headers and stock starter for years; and then in 2014 it started to do this. Replaced with a mini and a 2 gauge cable and no issues since.
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Jack had suggested before about upgrading the hot wire off of the battery to a super heavy gauge (Jack, please correct me if Im wrong), this is probably a good idea, and one which I still need to do.
I did this to mine per Jack's suggestion and it took care of my problem.
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We use these
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/
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Check your base ignition timing. If it's too far advanced, you'll have hot start issues that are EXACTLY as you describe because it kicks back the starter.
I had the same issue when I first got my '79 w/ a 400. When hot, it sounded like the battery was dying when I cranked it, but it usually did start regardless. Checked my timing, turned out I was at 35 degrees initial at idle without vacuum advance, which is absolutely absurd. Heck, the vacuum advance wasn't even hooked up. Dropped it down to 18 BTDC initial per factory spec, hooked the vac advance back up; and the car now starts at the turn of a key when hot.
If your timing is way up there, prepare to turn your idle speed screw in a turn or so to bring the idle back up, since lowering your ignition timing drops your RPMs.
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Same issue here on my 71 TA, I am using the RobbMc as suggested and have what I think is the HD cables. Has to be timing I guess based on all the comments here. Its 95 here in Houston so it desnt take long to heat up...hate to shut the car off unless its for an hour!
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Thank you all for the replies, I have just doubled check the starter wire which was loose at the battery terminal, now cleaned and remade off, fired up even better than normal, the timing is near spot on, so will look at getting a mini starter, thank you all.
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Sounds like you've already made a decision but I had the same issue. As others, I ended up buying a mini-starter as well and have not had a problem since. My motor has been rebuilt to a nice street motor and it had headers at the time. The mini-starter solved my issue and it hasn't come back.
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I have the original starter on my engine. I had it rebuilt by a reputable company that deals with starters and alternators. I just like the way an OEM starter meshes with the flywheel. Bought rebuilt starters from auto stores that fit like crap and returned them. I've never had any luck shimming replacement starters. Luckily they still had my OEM and then I had it rebuilt.
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Sorry I am late to comment on this. All points previously brought up are good ones.
No Doubt modern mini starters are superior to the direct drive starters from the 60’s and 70’s. The main advantage is the gear reduction providing a mechanical advantage to the motor.
That doesn’t mean a good OEM starter can’t do the job. My personal experience with rebuilds is most aren’t very good. But if you can find an automotive electric shop that specializes in starters and alternators they should be able to repair yours. I have repaired many starters by cleaning up the commutator with 320 grit paper, replacing worn out carbon brushes, replacing the solenoid, replacing the starter drive and lubing the bushings. Depending on the problem, I replaced only what parts were needed. Obviously if the battery cables aren’t clean and tight at both ends the best starter in the world could still give you grief. GM used heat shields in many applications and shims to the block were used as needed.
If you are looking for high quality reasonably priced custom battery and starter cables go to CE Auto Electric. https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/ I personally have had good experiences with them. Tony the owner is extremely knowledgeable.
I found this article online with much useful information. I am not endorsing any particular brand of starter.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/because-theres-more-to-a-starter-than-you-realize/
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"AND", (to throw in my 2 cents) had a tri-power 65 GTO many years ago, (Long B4 mini-starters) with hedders, and would do the same thing. Had the starter rewound, and wrapped it in cork insulation, (cause the hedder tubes practically rubbed against it), and cured that problem too. And stayed reliable as a DD for 10 years after that.
Another reason for the benefit of the RA manifolds, rather than hedders. On the street, they're tough to beat.