Toasted Clutch

[Zach]

Howdy, clutch finally decided to give out on the TA, it was inevitable, we never changed it when we bought the car 20 years ago and I have probably put 4k miles on it since we got it on the road 3 years ago. Mom wanted a burnout, and I must’ve not dumped it fast enough, didn’t spin the tires till I got to the higher end of first, and could just smell the clutch. Noticed it would bounce pretty bad getting up my driveway for the past couple months, not it bounced like crazy at stop signs and I gotta ride it. Oh well, things break knew I’d have to get in there eventually.

Story over, was curious if you guys have any suggested replacement kits. I want to swap the fly wheel, pressure plate, clutch, etc. etc. it’s all old and most likely close to original, mini starter was not adjusted the best and ate the flywheel a tiny bit so I’ll replace that while I’m in there. I read that buying a metal throw out bearing is a good idea if it comes with a plastic one. Also curious if there are any other “while you are down there” things I should check out. Also debating tearing open the 4 speed since it had a loud circular clunk sound that seemingly disappeared over the winter for some reason, it’s the reason I parked it so early and it seemed to never happen again.

Anyways, any input would be nice, thanks.

[b_hill_86]

I’ve run, and heard good things from others about, LuK kits. They have 10.5 and 11” versions. I purchased a replacement flywheel from Firebird Central because I felt with the info they provided I was confident it would fit. I didn’t feel the same with buying elsewhere in the same or lower price range. The LuK kits do come with a TO bearing that has a plastic (for lack of knowing the actual material) portion where the clutch fork rides. I did opt to buy an all metal one but I also had a few issues with the cheaper ones. I think if I had to get in there again I’d try the LuK version. I read a lot online and only ever found people saying not to use it, not any actual reports of failures. For what it’s worth.

Get yourself a trans jack, an adapter for a floor Jack or make one. It can be done without one but it’s much easier especially if you’re working by yourself.

Also just my PSA, lift and secure the car at multiple points with quality jack stands or wood blocks. These cars will kill you if you fall.

[Zach]

I’ve run, and heard good things from others about, LuK kits. They have 10.5 and 11” versions. I purchased a replacement flywheel from Firebird Central because I felt with the info they provided I was confident it would fit. I didn’t feel the same with buying elsewhere in the same or lower price range. The LuK kits do come with a TO bearing that has a plastic (for lack of knowing the actual material) portion where the clutch fork rides. I did opt to buy an all metal one but I also had a few issues with the cheaper ones. I think if I had to get in there again I’d try the LuK version. I read a lot online and only ever found people saying not to use it, not any actual reports of failures. For what it’s worth.

Get yourself a trans jack, an adapter for a floor Jack or make one. It can be done without one but it’s much easier especially if you’re working by yourself.

Also just my PSA, lift and secure the car at multiple points with quality jack stands or wood blocks. These cars will kill you if you fall.

Heard luk was good, they seem to only offer 1 on rockauto but I only looked around for a bit, gonna disassemble and double check everything before I order since it’s my first time. Got the car on home made wheel cribs, 2x4s stacked to about a foot high so it should be more than enough, been using the for a while. Do I need to worry about propping the engine or anything or are the engine mounts good enough for it to not wanna move when I remove the bell/tranny, just a concern my dad had but he wasn’t sure. Thanks for the info.

[b_hill_86]

You can find the LUK kits on Amazon too fyi. As for the engine I don’t know the ultimate answer to that. I chose to prop it up under the oil pan though you have to allow it to drop some to angle the trans obviously

[Zach]

Well, I got the transmission out and the pressure plate out didn’t take the flywheel out yet got too late, 2am is when I call it lol. My engine didn’t want to tilt at all for some reason even took the distributor cap off just in case and I didn’t even need a support under the oil pan, made it a pain getting the tranny out since it wanted to hit the firewall. Clutch looks pretty bad, fiber material around the outside, lots of yellow swirly marks, pretty flat, throw out has some chatter too it. Haven’t looked at clutch kits, more than likely I’ll do a luk with a plastic throw out. My flywheel honestly doesn’t look too bad, might just bring it in somewhere and have them take a peak.

[Zach]

Gotta say it isn’t easy trying to find the right parts with good feedback when it comes to clutches and flywheels, at least for close to stock replacements. The clutch on it is a 11 inch, the luk on rock auto is a 10.5 not sure how much of a difference it makes. Debating if I try to send my flywheel in for resurfacing, I’m not sure what is too far gone and what isn’t. Firebird central doesn’t have the flywheels available currently and I’m not sure if I can trust a 70 dollar replacement.

I don’t feel any cracks or grooves, fingernail lightly catches in some spots, there is obvious wear though.

https://flic.kr/p/2pQD7Kf

[wheels78ta]

Thankfully there is a place in Wichita, about a 15 mile drive, that still resurfaces flywheels.  They did a great job on the original that came with my Y88.

[Zach]

Thankfully there is a place in Wichita, about a 15 mile drive, that still resurfaces flywheels.  They did a great job on the original that came with my Y88.

There is some nice machine shops in my area luckily, more than likely I could find one. If you had good luck I might give it a go, seems to be the most cost effective route. Read that some people advise against resurfacing 50 year old cast but I’m only pushing stock horse power so who knows.

[langss]

If the "Ring Gear" is damaged at all, it can be replaced, and they are not that expensive. You just have to make sure you get the right one for your application...IE size and tooth count. Be careful having it resurfaced. If its grooved or gouged by the rivets, you have no choice, but if its just marked up or heat transfer, you can clean most of that off with Solvent. Heat Checking, and or Cracks...If you never race it or spin it up, just clean it off otherwise consider replacing it...Keep in mind they are not cheap and probably no where near the Metallurgy of the original. Just my own experience. Regards. 

[b_hill_86]

A good machine shop should also advise if they think a flywheel isn’t safe to resurface and run rather than take your money. Post up a pic once it’s off.

[Zach]

A good machine shop should also advise if they think a flywheel isn’t safe to resurface and run rather than take your money. Post up a pic once it’s off.

I posted a link in my previous response, never figured out how to upload an image though a link. The additional options route is limited to a MB which means some added blur that kinda sucks when you need detail. I’ll post it again.

There has obviously been heat, if I run my fingernails across it it barely catches on anything, pretty much 0 ridge. I wonder if oil has been sneaking in between.

[Zach]

Brought the flywheel to the machine shop today so we will see how that turns out. Think I’m gonna go with a zoom mu5505-1a clutch, seems people like zoom and it’s one of the cheaper ones.

[langss]

Brought the flywheel to the machine shop today so we will see how that turns out. Think I’m gonna go with a zoom mu5505-1a clutch, seems people like zoom and it’s one of the cheaper ones.

That Flywheel is "Mint" compared to some of the ones I've seen . I say change the "Ring Gear" if its really chewed up, and go. I was expecting "Heat Cracks" that look like the Grand Canyon. I had a Zoom Disk, Held up well to my abuse. Regards. 

[Zach]

Man I wonder if all of this was caused by a poorly adjusted clutch and maybe some oil leakage. Tore open the transmission today and it is really clean for something that hasn’t been babied for 60k miles. Was pretty concerned for a minute since I saw a lot of light gray metallic sludge but from what I can tell it’s normal and is just basic wear or it’s coming from the ball bearings but they seem to be just fine for now, the most worn thing I really saw was some chips on 2nd on the counter shaft. Just gonna clean it reassemble with a gasket kit and freshen up the shift linkage, didn’t slide the gears off the shaft so that’ll save some time.

If anyone else has any ideas lemme know, to reinstate the problem was amplified by a burnout that didn’t work out, dropped the clutch and it just slipped and burned until the tires started spinning like they should. Then the bucking back and fourth from a dead stop to moving got a lot worse and happened all the time (stop sign, light, driveway, etc.) .

From what I can tell the clutch was bad but not as bad as it should’ve been, flywheel was pretty ugly, lots of heat luckily I caught it before any cracks.

Thanks all.

[b_hill_86]

Yea I agree, from what I can see there that flywheel doesn’t look bad cracks wise. It may clean up nicely. I ran one that looked much worse than that before I decided to replace it just to be safe.

[81Blackbird]

The bucking back and fourth usually indicates a warped flywheel. 
If it's the first time its being surfaced it should be okay.  When it gets too thin is when they usually warp easily.

[Zach]

The bucking back and fourth usually indicates a warped flywheel. 
If it's the first time its being surfaced it should be okay.  When it gets too thin is when they usually warp easily.

Would make sense, flywheel was the only not so great looking thing. I didn’t check for warpage before I sent it out so hopefully it all gets worked out. I’ll just make sure to get it properly adjusted and all of that. I ordered new pressure plate bolts since someone must’ve changed it at some point it had miss match hardware which I’m sure is not helping, same with the tranny crossover but that’s not as important.

Thanks for all the input.

[5th T/A]

Many many years ago in the 70’s I worked in a transmission shop. The shop owners had a policy that when we replaced a clutch the flywheel got machined. If it couldn’t get machined it was replaced. This was done because they didn’t want any comebacks. A flywheel with hard spots is more likely to chatter.

[81Blackbird]

At one point it was suggested to have both the flywheel and pressure plate balanced together.  I was surprised at the weight that was added to balance the unit.

[FormTA]

I need to get a clutch too. Does the Zoom clutch have the same pressure to disengage it? Basically pedal pressure.  I don't need a super strongly clutch just a basic one but a smooth and relatively easy on my leg one.

[Zach]

I need to get a clutch too. Does the Zoom clutch have the same pressure to disengage it? Basically pedal pressure.  I don't need a super strongly clutch just a basic one but a smooth and relatively easy on my leg one.

I’ll let you know in a few days lol, it’s cheap and it’s a relatively stock replacement so I’d imagine it’s easy on the legs. Haven’t seen anyone complain about pressure, just that they like the clutch.

[Zach]

Got the flywheel and clutch on today, just waiting on transmission gaskets from Paul to arrive. In case you guys get this clutch the pilot bushing is incorrect you need a Dorman 690-023, found one at advanced auto parts. My pilot bushing probably had close to 1/4 or 3/8 of an inch worth of play with the input shaft in it, gonna pretend I didn’t see that much wear and just replace it. When I disassembled the transmission the input shaft bearings didn’t seem concerning at all, and nothing else was really worn so I’ll save the 300 some bucks for a rebuild kit and inevitably take it out again in 5 years. I’ll update how the clutch feels either tonight or tomorrow.

[FormTA]

Good deal! I haven't looked yet, I hope both if my 301s have a spot for the pilot bearing. I know my original 301 that was in my 79 before the LS swap had the provision.  Not sure the size but I can just make one to fit. I have a lathe.

[Zach]

Well I hit a road block. Putting the transmission back together and didn’t realize I had to remove the input shaft bearing in order to get it back in the casing. Now I need to wait for a transmission shop to open on Monday or get lucky at a car shop tomorrow for them to throw it on a press for me. Might as well order a new input bearing since I have to take it off. After this is over I don’t want to see another large snap ring again, it’s impressive how much force they take to get off not to mention they are cut at an angle so they just slip off snap ring pliers, specifically the front bearing retainer. Everything was going so smoothly until the final steps.