TAC Tech => Interior => Topic started by: Wallington on November 28, 2022, 03:46:28 AM
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Anyone with a spare dash back to look at or perhaps already knows, does the original dash grab handle mount at 90 degrees or are the end tabs slightly angled? I'm not sure how wide the slots are when cut which would affect this also. And does an original handle have a large curve to it or is that over many years of being pulled out of shape? I have seen originals which have kinks in them, even though they seem to be fairly resistant to flexing and retake their shape. I don't have an original dash or mounts, just comparing original vs repro handles. Both are nearly identical except original flares out and when straightened creates a curved handle, the repro is already moulded square and has a fairly straight and horizontal to dash handle. Perhaps a distance between slots would also be handy for setting up handles to compare, more for interest at this point.
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Wallington, I took some pictures and measurements that hopefully will help you. I had my glove box out because i am working on my radio. For reference this is a 1980 TA that I purchased almost three years ago. I believe it to be all original and had 6600 miles on it when purchased. It still might be worthwhile to get input from other members.
Here is inside dash right side mount.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530932183_fb38dad4e3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YKZi)IMG_0904 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YKZi) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Inside the dash, left side mount.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530391651_4d8c451b70_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2VZiM)IMG_0906 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2VZiM) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Grab handle showing slight bow.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530935208_49d6bec569_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YLTs)IMG_0911 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YLTs) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Measurement of center grab handle to dash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530938138_6b7e384c7c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YMKY)IMG_0912 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YMKY) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Measurement of right side to dash, hard to gauge, you should note the top seam from the mold on the grab handle.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530679299_3f5c86558e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2XsPe)IMG_0918 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2XsPe) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This is the outside width of the grab handle.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52529934682_b3091b239d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2TDt1)IMG_0923 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2TDt1) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Excellent pics, much appreciated. I'll see how these compare to what I have. Even just comparing the genuine handle and repro in my hand, but not the dash to mount, I'd expect issues. Simply inserting the end tabs through square makes the handles different lengths. I guess having one of each gives me 2 options for when I shod up the distance and have to use the other!
Is the roughly 13"/33cm measurement to centre of handle measured from centre of other end? Just gives me a rough idea of how much each spread when mounted to compare, not for any cutting purposes!
I'll post some pics later just for kicks. Meanwhile, has anyone swapped out their original handle for the OER handle and have any issues with the install, or didn't notice?
thanks again.
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I put a new handle on my dash, I cant remember now where it was sourced from. I tried to get original or NOS for everything but the handle was most likely a repro. I get most of my parts from Ames so I would think there is a good chance it came from them. I had no problems with fitment.
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The quality and originality of your car Larry is just so cool to me. I'm so glad I got to see it in person. These are great pictures and measurements. Really helps to build back the forum with important information. Thanks!
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Wallington (Ben) asked for some clarification on my measurements of the grab handle. I went back took some more measurements, hopefully this will help.
Here is the grab handle, with right side removed. The handle straightened out and got about an inch wider.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52540879584_60769e2a2e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3RK1d)IMG_0956 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3RK1d) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
A closeup of the same.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541134313_dbc121e19a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T3J6)IMG_0955 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T3J6) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Grab bar removed measurement.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541139088_3765a9cdb6_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T59q)IMG_0957 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T59q) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Closeup of left side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541073160_c640c36c68_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SJxJ)IMG_0958 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SJxJ) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Closeup of right side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52540896059_4b40b57e11_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3RPUg)IMG_0959 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3RPUg) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Measurement of dash cutout. I had a real hard time getting this measurement as no tape would stick to the padding on the dash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52540599606_7fc2129bb7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3QiM1)IMG_0962 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3QiM1) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Closeup of left side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541154903_405308f5bb_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T9R6)IMG_0960 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3T9R6) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Closeup of right side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541089395_47f5eed52b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SPnD)IMG_0961 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SPnD) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
As you can see once the grab bar is removed from the dash it gets about an inch wider. I believe the real question is where to cut the opening in the padded dash. This last photo shows the opening from the back. The bar has to mount against the plastic tab that protrudes out from the rear of the dash. If unsure how to locate this spot you could stick a fine needle or pin from the rear of the dash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541097275_0f9da5bca7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SRHv)IMG_0965 (https://flic.kr/p/2o3SRHv) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The right-side grab handle bolted in place.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52530932183_fb38dad4e3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YKZi)IMG_0904 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2YKZi) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Oh stop it! I don't want you going to actual effort and pulling things apart! It's as much for trivial conversation as much as helping work out a few things on this end! I'll post some comparison pics soon, but I'd imagine they aren't terribly interesting, even to me! Thanks again, above and beyond.
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Here's a quick comparison of the GM and OER reproduction dash grab handles. I haven't included the mounting bezels, they are in another post. The OER handle and bezels needed trimming and filing to help them to fit properly, out of the packet they did not fit at all. The GM handle in the OER bezels is still firm, I didn't want scratch the finish until I know which handle I'll use.
The GM handle has the bare ends at top, OER is painted and shown below.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550485791_857d50a0d3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GYAt)Firebird grab handle comparison GM vs OER saffron tan (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GYAt) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550957160_4cb86bdf96_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KoHw)Firebird grab handle comparison GM vs OER saffron tan (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KoHw) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550957150_3a404431e4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KoHm)Firebird grab handle comparison GM vs OER saffron tan (3) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KoHm) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52551030083_3f91908919_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KLoP)Firebird grab handle comparison GM vs OER saffron tan (4) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KLoP) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52551030068_8a43cf2493_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KLoy)Firebird grab handle comparison GM vs OER saffron tan (6) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KLoy) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
Overall a very good match. The OER is a much firmer handle, both have the twin spring metal strips of different gauges. OER has slightly larger grain and a few random specks towards the ends, would likely vary from handle to handle. OER needed trimming to fit OER bezels, didn't have GM bezels to check.
The GM handle, being more flexible, also flares out more in relaxed state, but pulls in to correct length with gentle curve. The OER handle is more a fixed shape but also is too long for mounting location. It is also much firmer, even if it could rebend the end mounts outwards to create more of a curve and shorten the length, the tension is more than what long term mounting location might handle, even if never used as a handle. It can likely be installed, but would not be mounting square like the GM version, it's hard to pull the ends in tight, already had the screws tighter than what a u-nut retainer in a plastic dash would see.
Thanks to Larry's much appreciated photos and measurements, I made this highly technical block of timber cut to 12.5" with a long wood screw in each end. The red is just fancy tape.
GM used original:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550772789_9a987fe2f9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4JrUH)Grab handle GM relaxed (https://flic.kr/p/2o4JrUH) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550024202_b4ebf8795a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4EBo3)Grab handle GM relaxed flush (https://flic.kr/p/2o4EBo3) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52551022398_400e86f8f4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KJ7j)Grab handle GM fastened (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KJ7j) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550024252_8308539b2b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4EBoU)Grab handle GM fastened end (https://flic.kr/p/2o4EBoU) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
OER Reproduction handle:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550477771_ef5b6e6a6a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GWdc)Grab handle OER relaxed (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GWdc) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52551022253_fc45aae7a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KJ4P)Grab handle OER relaxed flush (https://flic.kr/p/2o4KJ4P) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550477816_09dc067403_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GWdY)Grab handle OER fastened (https://flic.kr/p/2o4GWdY) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52550772759_f30245ba77_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4JrUc)Grab handle OER fastened end (https://flic.kr/p/2o4JrUc) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/196419001@N03/), on Flickr
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Looks pretty decent. Cool comparison!
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That was more a lazy way to show the different handle lengths when installed and how much they can flex to do so. I think the original dash fasteners are actually screwed from the inside facing out so that creates a few different issues in getting it to this shape prior, rather than pulling it in as screws tightened. Even then, only tightened slightly due to not being able to get flush. I'll try and see if the spring steel bends can be unbent slightly on the OER to create more curve when pulled back in but not expecting much and hopefully not destroy the coating in the process. A lot of time, money and effort goes into getting a part to the point at which you can see if it actually fits or not.
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It is nice to actually find a repo part that is actually a good replacement or copy. With a little bit of effort it looks like this is a good replacement (at least from where I'm sitting).
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So having said all that, maybe the discussion and photos prompt some memories.
Has someone installed the OER grab handle in their dash in place of original handle? Remember any issues trying to get it installed or tightened up due to the length or were the ends flared slightly more to allow extra curve in the handle itself?
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I ended up getting a guy in the US to cut up a bad dash for parts, they are brittle and tend to shatter so it has a lot of cracks and not sure if any use yet. The piece featured in this other post once I'd stripped all the vinyl cover off and foam padding.
http://www.transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=84673.0
Anyway, after having been packed away for weeks I remembered the grab handles, thought I'd drag it out to check a few things. I didn't take any pics, I didn't think they'd show a lot.
But both the handles fit ok after all, better than the previous tests were showing. The used original GM lined up and fit perfectly using the repro modified bezels. The angles of the mounting tabs were exact. The handle itself is fairly soft and flexible, not sure if they are all like that. Even with the dual spring steel strip it feels flimsy, whereas the OER handle is basically set to the shape and solid.
The OER handle had to be pulled in to line up and the second side was still flared out at the mount, but was able to be pulled in and fastened. I used longer than standard screws which helped get them started, I didn't have original fasteners which would have been harder to get straight and started. The is a fair distance from the mounting screw to the padded dash surface so a slight curve or angle can still get away with existing, and not seen. There is a lot of difference in the handle strength, it's very solid, no flex like the GM handle. It feels like you could actually use it, even though I don't want it tested.
Some day I'll I'll add a few pics showing the angle of the mounting tabs prior to tightening but it's more for reading, doesn't change anything at this point, other than possible advice to get longer screws just to help if using the repro handle.