TAC Tech => Number Crunching => Topic started by: firebirdparts on May 10, 2021, 08:57:39 AM
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On the assembly line, build sheets were used on every subassembly and there were several once all those subassemblies were combined. GM tried to remove them, but some which were hidden survive. None of the build sheets were deliberately placed in cars.
Some areas:
1. The top of the gas tank. This tends to be common on Van Nuys cars, and unfortunately, is often the only one you'll find. Even though the car has no frame, the chassis including rear suspension were coming along on a jig and there was a "body drop." There were some different gas tanks used in the late 70's but that may not be as important for the earlier years.
2. Under one or more of the seats. The seats were assembled at the factory in the "cushion room" and they traveled out and intersected with the main assembly line. I went to the Norwood reunion and got lots of clarifications on this. The build sheets were tucked into seats to make sure you matched up to the right car once that assembly line arrived at the cars. The rear seat frame is a good place to hold the sheet, and that's why it's there, but they can sometimes be under a front seat laced into the wires. These are more commonly found on Norwood cars.
3. Under the carpet. I think these are just random, like maybe if it fell off the dash, the carpet guy just covered it up.
There is the potential that they could be any other hidden place, such as inside the trunk or behind a fender, but again, none of this is deliberate.
It's possible that a build sheet in your car may be actually for a different car.
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Is it considered bad form to post a pic of our build sheets? Is there even any value in that kind of thread?
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Not at all. Used to be some on here. Having never found one, I like to look at them.
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There's a lot of useful information that is hard to locate or confirm elsewhere. This applies more to less common models since 9/10 buildsheets online are SE or close candidates with same options that are easily confirmed. It took a great deal of searching to find a non-TA 403 Formula to check the air cleaner decal code for a transfer, my sheet only half intact. Also good for checking dates and details for mid-production option and part changes, if you are patient and bothered by trivialities.
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there was a member who had decoded almost every box
unfortunately it was lost in the crash
and i cant remember who it was
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It took a great deal of searching to find a non-TA 403 Formula to check the air cleaner decal code for a transfer, my sheet only half intact.
The one in my '78 W50 L80 came up ok, one on the tank and one stuffed in the back seat, haven't had a chance to photocopy them yet, i'll have to get around to that soon, I forgot to check the diff ratio too
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(https://i.imgur.com/zozpnBx.jpg)
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Firebirdparts, thanks for this post and all the other useful information you provide to TAC.
EscapeRacing, you are a lucky man, not just to find your build sheet, but to find one in such good condition.
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The build sheet for my TATA:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51860841861_7c1557f2df_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n1LntT)TATA_Build sheet (https://flic.kr/p/2n1LntT) by Jeff Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152705557@N08/), on Flickr
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Wish I found one on my car. I really only looked behind the rear seat but I’m not hopeful I’ll find another anywhere else. Not completely the same, but similar, I did buy PHS for my car recently to get what info I could. Not sure if I was an unlucky one or what but man that was a disappointment. I couldn’t read the majority of the dealer invoice.
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As mentioned before the build sheet is the holly grail when it comes to documents.
Years ago I got PHS documentation on my 73 TA. I managed to hang on to the window sticker from the day I bought the car but was curious about the actual shipping date. That info was provided on the dealership invoice. To me the only thing useful from PHS would be the invoice and the window sticker if you don’t have one and are willing to spend the extra money. My invoice was readable but not a great copy. I think they print them from micro fiche.
When you consider we are going back 40 plus years it’s amazing this is still available. I doubt anyone is getting rich by providing this service. I don’t know if anything like this is available from other manufacturers.
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When you consider we are going back 40 plus years it’s amazing this is still available. I doubt anyone is getting rich by providing this service. I don’t know if anything like this is available from other manufacturers.
I wouldn’t argue that it isn’t beneficial to have that info available still after all of these years but I would argue that said information is only useful (and worth paying for) if it’s able to be deciphered. I don’t think anyone would buy a lawn mower only to find out the engine will never run again and say “At least we have a lawn mower now though”. :D
My invoice wasn’t a complete waste though. I was curious as to what dealer it was sold to/from, which I can’t determine, but I did find out my car was a W72 engine car though the original engine is gone. I also confirmed some options on my car including tilt wheel which I always wondered about since someone installed a 79-81 tilt column at some point. I always assumed it was because it came with a non tilt column.
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Unless you need to prove your car is something, then yes the PHS does seem to be disappointing when you get it. Of course, it's a service other owners don't have access to so nice to have but you will still be expecting far more than what turns up, and far less highlighter.
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I knew i wasn’t going to get a lot of my-vehicle-specific info but I hoped the one document I would get would be legible. The options list are for the most part but the rest is questionable. This is what I got. One thing I was hoping to see was where the car was sold. That won’t happen. I did still get some info so, as I said, not a complete loss per se, I was just went expecting it to come from microfilm in poor condition.
EDIT: I can’t post it possibly due to whatever is going on with the server maintenance but I will once I can.
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Here are some of mine:
Here is my skybird
(http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/redsky/resource/myskybirdbuild.jpg)
My 78 Redbird
(https://i.imgur.com/m77Fgcd.jpg)
My 79 Redbird
(http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/redsky/resource/myredbuild.jpg)
77 Special Edition
(http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/hogheadgarage/dutch/buildsheet.jpg)
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Here is what I got from PHS
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I hope your copy is better than what is seen on here! I was not overly happy with the quality of the last one I got. Its a shame as the PHS has become synonymous with having a well documented car. I know some people wont even look at one without it.
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I hope your copy is better than what is seen on here! I was not overly happy with the quality of the last one I got. Its a shame as the PHS has become synonymous with having a well documented car. I know some people wont even look at one without it.
I wish it was. That’s as good as mine gets.
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I found the build sheet from my '81 Turbo Trans Am on top of the gas tank. It's in pretty bad shape, much of it is not legible:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52322488392_8680c0bfeb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nHyqUQ)P9280146-001 (https://flic.kr/p/2nHyqUQ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I was able to discern some information from it though. One interesting fact is that my car was one of the last 2nd Gen
F-Body's built at the Van Nuys plant.
The Cowl tag build date shows 2nd week of July 1981. The Ship date on the PHS documentation is July 15, 1981, and I found contemporaneous LA Times news articles that indicate that 3500 of the 4000 Van Nuys plant employees were to be "laid off from July 10 through sometime in October while the plant retools for 1982 models."
I also learned my car was originally purchased in Midwest City (Oklahoma City) OK. I had thought it was always a NE car.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4441/36616515290_f73847f6d9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XMFdi9)PB250099_zpsamlidazt (https://flic.kr/p/XMFdi9) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So, the build sheet and PHS documenation did hold some interesting information in my case.
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There's that highlighter again.
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the good part of the yellow highlighter is that on a b+w photo copy it dis-appears
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Just read the entire thread and I'm a bit unclear as to will the PHS documentation show which dealer the car was delivered to? Do you have to pay extra for the window sticker to show this info?
I looked in all the usual spots on my derelict 74 Esprit (Norwood built) for the build sheet but alas nothing found. :-(
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PHS will show what dealer if it’s legible. Mine was mostly not although another member elsewhere was able to make out enough on mine to decipher it. Window sticker info is derived from the invoice I believe and then made using that info
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I never look too closely at that, but some payer definitely has to exist to be invoiced, and I never have seen one myself that didn't have somebody listed there relatively normal. Some guys have had one that was retained by GM for some reason, like executive perks, but I think the invoice would reflect some dealer that got invoiced after the fact, maybe.
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Thank you for the info. I'll be ordering the PHS soon.
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Got my PHS and I'm pleased with the service. My 74 Esprit was sold at Ferrar-Daeley Pontiac (long gone) in Los Angeles, just south of Hollywood which is really what I wanted to know. The invoice is not as thorough as say the build sheet from my 79 Trans Am but it's enough to validate what's on the car. Would post a pic if I could but not sure how to or where to host the picture.
Found this pic of the old dealership:
https://www.alamy.com/ferrar-daeley-car-dealership-on-la-brea-avecirca-with-pontiac-chief-logo-on-sign-los-angeles-ca-image467827262.html (https://www.alamy.com/ferrar-daeley-car-dealership-on-la-brea-avecirca-with-pontiac-chief-logo-on-sign-los-angeles-ca-image467827262.html)
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Here's a link to my PHS:
https://flic.kr/p/2o4kUwk (https://flic.kr/p/2o4kUwk)
How do I post the actual image on here?
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When you click on the link in Flickr to forward a pic, select the BBcode and past here, it opens in thread.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52546374743_6f179185b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4kUwk)2T87M4N166014 (https://flic.kr/p/2o4kUwk) by Sal Garcia (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191980733@N05/), on Flickr
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Thanks!! now I can post pics of my clapped out 74 Esprit lol.
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I can't believe I've never visited this thread.
I found my first build sheet behind the rear seat.
The second one was on top of the gas tank.
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Lucky. Would love to have found mine but it wasn’t in either location. Maybe under the carpet when the day comes to remove it.
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Lucky. Would love to have found mine but it wasn’t in either location. Maybe under the carpet when the day comes to remove it.
I tore my car apart, not behind the backseat, above the gas tank, under the carpeting, in the dash or doors. Either a previous owner removed it or it never had one. I do have the original window sticker and other documents.
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Dang, thats pretty good to have 2 of them. Like the others I have not been that lucky. I have scans that people have sent me. My 77 had a pretty rough life before I got it, had replacement front seats (recaros none the less), nothing behind the back seat or gas tank, although I think they were original. My 79 had been completely dismantled with the exception of the gas tank. I was holding out hope that it would be there but alas, no luck.